Air Strikes Failing To Halt Is.

[Gromit]

// Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan has warned that a ground operation is needed to defeat the militants, fuelling concerns that US-led air strikes are doing little to halt Isil's advances.

"The terror will not be over... unless we cooperate for a ground operation," president Erdogan said in a televised speech in the eastern city of Gaziantep, adding that air strikes were not enough on their own.

"Months have passed but no results have been achieved. Kobane is about to fall." //

It is clear that air strikes are not working. Are they just for show? Is Obama too scared to tackle IS properly?

[youngmafbog]

Afghanistan is a totally different kettle of fish due to the very inhospitable terrain. You really cannot use it as an example like that.

[anotheoldgit]

I read this morning that the large building that Isis was daft enough to raise their flag on was destroyed by an air attack.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2783254/Building-black-flag-ISIS-targeted-airstrikes-key-Syrian-town-Kobane-Kurds-vow-fight-jihadists-death.html

[sandyRoe]

The Turks might well like to see the Kurds getting a *** nose at the hands of ISIS. They don't seem to want to get involved.

[anotheoldgit]

youngmafbog

/// Afghanistan is a totally different kettle of fish due to the very inhospitable terrain. You really cannot use it as an example like that. ///

We fought the Taliban on the plains and desert of Afghanistan, not in the mountainous area.

[youngmafbog]

//We fought the Taliban on the plains and desert of Afghanistan, not in the mountainous area. //

Yep, but they hid in the mountains when not fighting so it was impossible to wipe them all out, just as the Russians found out.

Tottally different warfare to the middle east.

[jim360]

Regardless, AOG, the concept that a conquering army wants to meet serious resistance is nonsensical. Of course IS don't want to see a major ground war; or if they do then they are even more crazy than I thought.

More to the point, it's clear that the current strategy of relying solely on air strikes is not going to be enough to contain, let alone defeat, IS. Escalation or "mission creep" is inevitable because this is a war that we must win.

[anotheoldgit]

youngmafbog

/// Yep, but they hid in the mountains when not fighting ///

And could not Isis also hide in the mountains, since there are mountains in both Iraq and Syria, or even disappear amongst the inhabitants?

Syria

*** It consists of mountain ranges in the west and farther inland a steppe area. In the east is the Syrian Desert and in the south is the Jabal al-Druze Range. ***

Iraq

*** The northeastern highlands begin just south of a line drawn from Mosul to Kirkuk and extend to the borders with Turkey and Iran. High ground, separated by broad, undulating steppes, gives way to mountains ranging from 1,000 to 4,000 meters (3,281 to 13,123 ft) near the Iranian and Turkish borders. Except for a few valleys, the mountain area proper is suitable only for grazing in the foothills and steppes. ***

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// this is a war that we must win. ///

At the moment I don't think that Isis are gathering together their invasion barges across the Channel, neither are their tanks storming across Europe.

So what war?

[jim360]

Wow, AOG. In the first place Wars aren't defined by a direct and imminent threat to the UK; in the second place I mean properly "we" as in the entire world. Allowing IS to continue unchecked is not an option. After all, since their stated aim would eventually be to set up a global caliphate, waiting until they reach our shores would be far, far too late to start fighting. Rather like it very nearly was too late in 1940.

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// waiting until they reach our shores would be far, far too late to start fighting. Rather like it very nearly was too late in 1940. ///

Yes but it wasn't was it?

Also the Moors tried it in the middle ages and only got as far as Spain, so no worries in this day and age.

[redvanman]

Why don't all the Arab countries send in there armed forces to fight IS instead of relying on the western world and the USA

[jim360]

I'd expect you'd appreciate even more than I do how close it was. Waiting until the bad guys are on your doorstep before taking action is at best a risky strategy. And more accurately a foolish one.

Regardless, IS is a serious threat and one for which "just waiting it out" is not a realistic option.

[jomifl]

AOG
/Also the Moors tried it in the middle ages and only got as far as Spain, so no worries in this day and age. /
As I mentioned only a few days ago on a similar thread, the Moors got with 200 miles of the English Channel but were turned back at the battle of Poitiers. They never managed to invade Spain north of the Picos de Europe because the terrain was too difficult and the natives were not friendly.

[ludwig]

The Turks are in a position to do something to kelp the Kurdish defenders at Kobane, but they appear to be content with sitting and watching from their tanks on the hill just over the border.

[jomifl]

Bombing IS so as to 'degrade their assets' will work in the long term. At the moment they have an income of about one million dollars a day from their annexed oil fields but as their income reduces and their stock of stolen arms is destroyed they will not be able to sustain their aggression. They will become a disillusioned rabble fighting with whatever come to hand whilst their opponents will get stronger and more confident..

[Gromit]

// The Turks might well like to see the Kurds getting a *** nose at the hands of ISIS. They don't seem to want to get involved. //

The Turks are very much involved. They have undertaken more air strikes than the British. They do not want IS on their border. Rather than not get involved, they seem rather keen on confronting ISIs eyeball to eyeball. Turkey have a large army (every young male has to do national service), and are a long time member of NATO. I would not be surprised if Turkey undertakes incursions into Syria alone if they have to.

[stuey]

The fourth picture in the top article on this page http://www.bbc.com/news/ shows a line of, I suspect IS, tanks moving. Now, unless this is just a "stock" photo, why cant the RAF/USAF strikers see them if just a person with a camera can?

[DTCwordfan]

I've said all along we need a Turkish/Saudi/Iranian squeeze, with some assistance from UAE troops on the ground, we Allies can then provide support in air, espionage, SOE and naval off Syria....... Press them like a soured lemon in a ten ton press.

[Gromit]

DTC
The Saudi's are the main supporters of IS. Private Donations from SA and Qatar have got IS where they are today. They may be making money from recently captured oul fields, but that is a new stream of income. Fundraising from the wahabi zealots has been their kickstarter funding.