Why Did People Allow The Union Flag To Be Associated With Far Right Groups?

[sp1814]

This is the result:

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/herne-bay/news/st-georges-flag-snubbed-16150/

Which other country would allow their nation flag to become associated with right wing political factions?

In America, all people can stand behind their flag...now if you see a group of men marching down the street with the Union Flag draped around their shoulders, you can be fairly certain that their knuckles will be draping along the ground (did ya see what I did there?)

Seriously...how comes this happened to England, but not Scotland, Ireland or Wales?

Who is to blame (because I assume *someone* has to be blamed...)

[sp1814]

AOG

Regarding England vs Britain...

You're right. I have noticed myself that in the media generally, our nation is referred to as 'Britain' rather than 'England', which is odd, because when stories are about Scotland, NI or Wales, they are described as such.

Regarding the number of ethnic minorities who join in St George's Day celebrations...perhaps again it's a matter of perception.

Whereas (for example), white people have always joined in the fun of Notting Hill, there isn't yet the draw to celebrate St George's Day.

I mean...how many white people you know organise parades, parties etc?

Compare that to St Patrick's Day last year in London. I noticed that there were quite a few black and Asian faces in the pubs and bars around Soho and the West End, all of which were throwing St Pat's celebrations.

So I doubt it's a race thing...perhaps St George's Day just doesn't have enough traction yet?

Like Halloween was not a big celebration when I was a kid, and now it's huge.

[sp1814]

youngmafbog

I hear what you're saying, but totem is adopted and exploited by a specific group, is it not natural human instinct to associate that totem with the group?

Take for instance the red flag...until left wing groups took it as a symbol, it was simply a red flag...now it's a symbol of left wing extremism...so much so that the Labour Party dumped it for the red rose in the 90s.

If the NF, BNP, EDL etc adopted a white flag with an oak tree on it, then I suspect that oak trees would be looked upon as 'dodgy'. But because no-one complained about our national flag being politicised, I believe collectively, we're to blame that some now see the Flag of St George as being a right wing totem.

Hence Wetherspoon's reticence to fly it.

Have I spelled 'reticence' correctly?

[jomifl]

/I mean...how many white people you know organise parades, parties etc? /
Can you clarify what you meant by this question sp?
Where I live absolutely everything is organised by white people, except the mobile pizza van.

[jno]

where you live isn't the UK, is it, jomifl?

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

Well here is one Muslim who is a member of the EDL and he got arrested for it, seems funny when the group of Asians that were accosting him got away with it.

/// The court heard how Rafiq claimed to have been threatened by 10 Asian men at the rally before launching into a tirade of swearing.

Prosecuting Mike Vittis said the man tried pulling a union flag from his bag before being ushered away from the scene by police. ///

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2481474/EDLs-Muslim-member-fined-threatening-behaviour-Asian-men-rally.html

[emmie]

our local council flew the red flag years ago, but then again Ken Livingstone was one of the stalwarts

[emmie]

as to white people joining in the Nottinghill carnival, what an odd thing to say, it wasn't the preserve of the black community, having been numerous times, it is now one of the most ethnically diverse carnivals in the world,

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// Compare that to St Patrick's Day last year in London. I noticed that there were quite a few black and Asian faces in the pubs and bars around Soho and the West End, all of which were throwing St Pat's celebrations. ///

Well wouldn't they have been in the pubs anyway, regardless of the fact that it was St Patrick's day or not?

[sp1814]

jomifl

That was leading on from AOG's point about St George's Day celebrations.

I assume that they can only really be organised by white indigenous English people, because we've discussed whether black and Asian people can be English, and I don't think AOG agrees this is possible.

AOG, if I've misrepresented your opinion, please shout.

[sp1814]

emmie

Re: Notting Hill Carnival - exactly.

[sp1814]

AOG

No - the bars I'm talking about are Irish bars. I know the area well and there was a definite influx of celebrators for St Patrick's Day, as evidenced by sheer numbers (spilling out onto the pavements etc).

[jomifl]

jno. when I lived in the UK everything in our community was organised by white people, simply because it wasn't central London. People living in London need to get out more and see how the rest of the country copes.

[jomifl]

The Ed has forgotten to remove the fascist flag from the top left corner.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// Take for instance the red flag...until left wing groups took it as a symbol, it was simply a red flag...now it's a symbol of left wing extremism...so much so that the Labour Party dumped it for the red rose in the 90s. ///

"We'll keep the red flag flying here" is still Labours anthem which they sing with gusto whenever Labour supporters gather together.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/29/article-2166639-13DBEFE3000005DC-916_233x324.jpg

[emmie]

we have got to this state partly because of a small group of people who for the most part don't understand its significance, and the lefties who think that we shouldn't be patriotic, wave a flag, have pride in the country we were born into, their idea of a utopian dream, almost like Dave, all in this together.

[emmie]

perhaps some people in London do go out more, however many people who live and work here are from every known port, so what association do they have to the country, countryside and its history.

[sp1814]

emmie

I suspect that quite a few of new Britons see themselves as Something/British rather than British.

However, their grandkids will see themselves as British, even if others regard them as 'Plastic Brits' (a charge thrown at Mo Farah at the Olympics).

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// No - the bars I'm talking about are Irish bars. ///

You are not telling me that these bars conduct an 'Irish Only' policy, except on St Patrick's Day when all and sundry are welcome, hence the influx of black and Asian customers you see in them on St Patrick's Day?

[sp1814]

emmie

You wrote:

"we have got to this state partly because of a small group of people who for the most part don't understand its significance, and the lefties who think that we shouldn't be patriotic"

You may have a point there...in summary, it's the right wing knuckle-draggers and the loony left's fault...leaving everyone in the middle irritated!