Now We Know Why Things Are So Cheap At Amazon

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25034598

This is why I won't shop at Amazon. Its little better than slave labour. No unions as well, so nothing to stop Amazon getting away with this. Watch Panorama tonight.

[mikey4444]

You don't seem to care at all Boo !

[sherrardk]

I will buy from the places that offer me the best value, we can't all afford principles however much we empathise with the work force involved.

[Gromit]

Not sure it is much different from being a postman - and they have to lug an heavy bag as well. I have done picking, and it is a hard job. A distribution company like Amazon have to be super efficient. The thing is, if this young man does not want the job, there are many others eager to take it.

Having not yet seen the programme, I will wait to see if it does indeed show anything bad. In the meantime I will continue to buy from Amazon.

[B00]

Now you're getting it mikey- you're right, I don't!

It's a choice whether to work there or not, you go into it with your eyes fully open to what's involved, and they pay a fairly decent wage.

There's worse things in the world to get upset, annoyed or in a tizz over, i'm afraid this for me isn't one of them.

[bednobs]

i heard this on the radio this morning and it angered me a lot - people have to stick to dealines? People have to do a set amount of work in a set amount of time? It can cause you some stress?

Isn't that just a description of working?

[LazyGun]

I am curious now, based on Gromits answer - what, in the opinion of those dismissive of the upcoming "revelations" in the Panorama show, would constitute unacceptable working conditions/practices? When does hard physical work cross that line between being hard but fair and descend into sweatshop labour?

[B00]

Gromit?

[B00]

Ahhh apologies, didn't see Grom's reply.

[Gromit]

He is working a 4 day week (probably 4 days off) and coming out with £1200+ a month. For a job that is not skilled, that is good. A lot of work is repetative and hard. At some time most of us have done it, usually when we were younger and fitter.

Amazon are not my favourite company. My beef is that they are closing down the High Street in every town and paying no rates and little tax. They are succeeding but paying very little into the local economy that they are decimating.

[ummmm]

Lazygun /When does hard physical work cross that line between being hard but fair and descend into sweatshop labour? /

Surely they have to operate under UK employment laws so it's never going to sweatshop labour.

[LazyGun]

@ummm well we shall see, shan't we? Labour laws should indeed protect us, but such laws surrounding pay and working conditions have been eroded somewhat over recent years, it seems to me.

Take the minimum wage, for instance - we know that, by law,all employees are entitled to at least the minimum wage for their labour - but there has been much evidence to suggest that the law is flouted, or creative practices used to get around paying it.

I am no expert in pay and working conditions - but it seems to me that at least some of the practices alleged about the way the workers are expected to perform at Amazon bear investigation. And generally speaking, given how rich we are as a country, should we not be expecting pay and conditions to comfortable exceed the bare minimum?

[horseshoes]

Of course it's stressful and busy - it's the run-up to Christmas. If you go into any similar workplace you'll find the same thing. I'll tell you what Mikey, I know you're in Wales like me, but there are a LOT of people who wish there was such a warehouse in the North of the country. It would give SO many unemployed some work.

[sandyRoe]

'People should be thankful to have a job', seems to be the attitude of some here. I suppose the Bangladeshis who work in sweat shops, which too often turn into fiery death-traps, should be grateful for the opportunities that providing us with 99p T-shirts gives them.

[mikey4444]

Horseshoes....Jobs are important, of course they are, but at any cost ?
As has been pointed out by Gromit, Amazon pay little or no tax here and think its OK to exploit their staff, as will be shown on Panorama tonight. I remember Amazon appearing in front of the Commons Select Committee earlier this year, desperately trying to explain why no corporation tax was being paid, by a company with a multi-million pound turnover. The MPs on that Committee were rightly incredulous.

LazyGun has asked an crucial question..." what, in the opinion of those dismissive of the upcoming "revelations" in the Panorama show, WOULD constitute unacceptable working conditions/practices?"

We are increasingly living in a low wage economy, with employment law being eroded or even ignored by exploitative employers.

Some employers are not even paying the minimum wage, according to the HMRC.

This appeared in the Guardian today ::

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/nov/25/hmrc-finds-care-firms-breaching-minimum-wage-laws

A quote from this article :::

"Last month David Norgrove, the head of the Low Pay Commission, told the Guardian that cuts in council funding had left rising numbers of care firms with little option but to break the law by paying below the minimum wage"

But, according to some on here this morning, this sort of thing is OK, because people should be grateful for a job. And if they don't like it...well they can always find another job with equally bad pay and working conditions. We will be sending small boys up chimneys again at this rate !

[hc4361]

sandyroe, we are talking about working conditions in the UK, not the whole world. There really is no comparison.

[hc4361]

Amazon provides a work environment that complies with health and safety laws, pay wages that comply with minimum wage laws.
Employees do have to work hard and meet targets but the same can be said for many companies and work places.
It is unskilled, manual labour and I really don't have a problem with that.

Try looking at the working day of the average carer who travels from house to house. His or her conditions, stress levels and pay really are shocking.

[LazyGun]

@hc I would agree with your observation about care workers - but I am curious still. For those of you reassured by the UK labour laws etc, what does constitute fair working conditions and hours for unskilled manual labour? What constitutes a fair hourly wage? Or are you just content to rely upon the market, or the law to determine such things? Should such workers aspire for better, or just be content with what they have?

[emmie]

i won't be watching, they don't have to work there, and i have worked in some mindbendingly dreadful jobs just to put food on the table and pay the rent, it's sometimes what you have to do,

[hc4361]

As a comparison I have just looked at vacancies for another stressful job - one that does require some level of skill (a driving licence) and in comparison Amazon's pay rate is not bad at all and it's less stressful.
http://www.drivingvacancies.co.uk/j/redhill/3-200468258/multi-drop-delivery-drivers.html

Anyone who has done multi drop deliveries will know the stress levels of not only meeting targets but dealing with customers and relentless stress of coping with driving hazards on a strict timetable.

[mikey4444]

Shouldn't you be watching Panorama tonight, before you have made your mind up about Amazon htc4361 ?

Of course, you are right about care workers but only until Panorama sends in an undercover reporter, to expose their wrong doings.