Andreas Lubitz

[joeluke]

As bad as the terrorists who flew the 9/11 planes?

[pixie373]

It's relevant because it tells you whether it was deliberate or not. "sanity" includes planning, organisation, understanding and being able to control your actions (no matter how horrible the action is) and understanding the consequences. We will probably never know how many of those applied to him.

[EDDIE51]

To me the 9/11 terrorists and Lubitz are totally diffrent. The 9/11 killers thought that by killing 'Infidels' they were garanteed a place in paradise.
I think they were sane but very badly misguided.
Lubitz was just insane. Had been treated by 4 diffrent mental health specialists but withheld his illness from his employers and tore up a sick note saying he was not fit to work?

[joeluke]

'planning, organisation, understanding and being able to control your actions'

He told an ex-girlfriend 'everyone will know my name'......he locked the door into the flight deck so that-one else could gain access

Am sick of the actions of suicide cases being justified 'because they were depressed'

[pixie373]

It doesn't sound like depression anyway. I have no idea what was in his mind at the time. You might be trying to put a rational explanation on an irrational illness, that's all.

[Jackdaw33]

He was right, though. Everyone does now know his name, just as everyone knows Lee Harvey Oswald. Tragic that people become known for the bad that they do rather than the good.

[chrissa1]

What I can't get my head round is, he must have seen the passengers getting on the plane. Seen the babies being carried on, and the teenagers with their whole lives in front of them and yet, he still went through with it.

[Ellipsis]

Following ludwig's post, an analogy would be Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane massacre). Like Lubitz, Hamilton killed 16 children, a teacher and himself ... but Lubitz killed a further 132 adults. Not many people have a lot of sympathy for Hamilton or make excuses for his mental state.

[Prudie]

That's a good comparison Ellipsis and you're right, he garnered little sympathy but Lubitz for some reason is, maybe we're more aware of depressive illnesses or maybe we've just become more forgiving, certainly on here. I don't know because I'm not a sympathiser.

[jim360]

I don't know about sympathy, perhaps, but I am wary of lumping him in with terrorists.

[andy-hughes]

joeluke - //Am sick of the actions of suicide cases being justified 'because they were depressed' //

First of all, he was not depressed, he had Depression, which is an entirely different situation.

And second, I don’t think anyone is trying to justify his action on the basis of his illness, merely try to explain it, which is not the same thing.

[joeluke]

Nothing but nothing can justify killing innocent people (who by the sound of it went to their deaths screaming)

This guy just wanted to die with notoriety

He won.......150 innocent men women and children (and their poor families and friends) lost

[Hypognosis]

Somehow, I don't think he wanted his name to be remembered by history as being a mass-murderer. Even stupid people can see how stupid that is.
Even if true, his girlfriend could have kept that between her and the investigators.

[Zacs-Master]

There is obviously something inherently wrong with a system which thinks it best to keep mental health issues away from the employers of, supposedly, highly responsible employees.

[askyourgran]

I think it was RATTER that once answered the question of suicide on here. He said something along the lines of 'if someone is depressed and suicidal they think of nothing else - no-one else is in the equation except the deed itself and it is done without thought.' I wish I could remember which thread it was, he explained it so well.

[Ellipsis]

There are lots of ways that mentally ill lorry drivers, train drivers or other members of the public could kill many other people at the same time as themselves. Most don't.

It's precisely because most people who are mentally ill don't kill 150 people, that I think we have to recognise Lubitz as being murderous as well as mentally ill.

[ludwig]

Hypnog // Somehow, I don't think he wanted his name to be remembered by history as being a mass-murderer. Even stupid people can see how stupid that is. //

You actually believe there haven't been people who wouldn't mind that kind of notoriety? How touchingly naive.

[ladyalex]

I am in agreement with Ellipsis, especially with his Hamilton in Dunblane analogy.
This pilot was probably depressed, possibly psychotic but also seems to me to be psychopathic too.
(Psychopathy does not prevent or protect you from also being depressed.)
From my reading of the reports of his last few minutes, he cared not a jot about anyone else on board that plane or anywhere else. (his parents and girlfriend for example).
He had decided to kill himself and make sure that he would be (in)famous.

As to comparing him to the 9/11 terrorists, same but different is how I see it.
Neither cared a jot about the others in the plane or in the towers,both wanted to make sure that they were (in)famous.

[Hypognosis]

@ludwing

I can't tell you how many mass murderer's names I have already forgotten because I have forgotten their names.

Sadder to say that I've forgotten some of the incidents too. I suppose that is what search engines are for.

The ones whose names I can remember I do not care to repeat. I was going to mention the Swedish island thing as an example of spree-killers but you posted first.

Thinking back to 'Cracker', the Albie character: wasn't there something about sentimentality at the root of his vengefulness? (Dramatic licence, or straight from the real-world manual?)

[andy-hughes]

joeluke - //Nothing but nothing can justify killing innocent people (who by the sound of it went to their deaths screaming) //

No-one is looking to 'justify' Mr Lubitz's dreadful actions, but we are debating some of the issues around them.