The K M Links Game- April Week 3
Quizzes & Puzzles11 mins ago
I Need To Contest A Will. Is There Anybody Who Has Any Good Tips?
I know from reading this page that I could contact CAB - that will take forever in their long que. Some Solicitors give 1/2hr free, but that will not be long enough.
I know a Will was written in 2008, before being given to another solicitor, nearer to (RR) home in London. Does a Will have to be registered everytime it is drawn up? Where can one find out which is the latest Will?
The firm who has the Will, will not answer questions other than to say "seek legal advice" that is so he can make some money. (I lived with a lawer once and he told me xxxxxx) It will not be a straight forward Will.
ANY GOODS TIPS PLEASE?
I know a Will was written in 2008, before being given to another solicitor, nearer to (RR) home in London. Does a Will have to be registered everytime it is drawn up? Where can one find out which is the latest Will?
The firm who has the Will, will not answer questions other than to say "seek legal advice" that is so he can make some money. (I lived with a lawer once and he told me xxxxxx) It will not be a straight forward Will.
ANY GOODS TIPS PLEASE?
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You have no right to see a will of a living person. It's a private document. It doesn't have to be registered anywhere. When the person dies, after certain formalities it becomes a public document, accessible to all, through the Probate Registry. Once that happens, an interested party may contest it.
>>>Does a Will have to be registered everytime it is drawn up?
No. While it's possible to lodge a will with the Principal Registry of the Family Division (more commonly known as First Avenue House) only a tiny minority of wills are ever lodged there. Most are simply held by solicitors or by testators, with no requirement to even tell anyone of their existence.
>>>Where can one find out which is the latest Will?
Quite simply, you can't. Unless wills are lodged at First Avenue House, there's no chronological record of them. (Even if a will is lodged there, there could still be a later will which hasn't been lodged).
Hopefully Barmaid (who is a barrister largely specialising in the probate field) will see your post and will be able to give you some advice. However I'm sure that she would want to know the grounds on which you intend to contest the will. Are you seeking to contest the whole validity of the will (for example, by showing that a later will exists which revokes the earlier one or by showing that the will wasn't properly witnessed) or are you seeking to get a court order varying the provisions of the will because you're claiming that it failed to make reasonable financial provision for you.
Barmaid would also need to know:
(a) whether the testator is actually deceased (since you've not mentioned a date of death in your post) ; and
(b) whether probate has been applied for or granted (which would seem to be unlikely if the will is with a solicitor, rather than with the Probate Office).
Chris
No. While it's possible to lodge a will with the Principal Registry of the Family Division (more commonly known as First Avenue House) only a tiny minority of wills are ever lodged there. Most are simply held by solicitors or by testators, with no requirement to even tell anyone of their existence.
>>>Where can one find out which is the latest Will?
Quite simply, you can't. Unless wills are lodged at First Avenue House, there's no chronological record of them. (Even if a will is lodged there, there could still be a later will which hasn't been lodged).
Hopefully Barmaid (who is a barrister largely specialising in the probate field) will see your post and will be able to give you some advice. However I'm sure that she would want to know the grounds on which you intend to contest the will. Are you seeking to contest the whole validity of the will (for example, by showing that a later will exists which revokes the earlier one or by showing that the will wasn't properly witnessed) or are you seeking to get a court order varying the provisions of the will because you're claiming that it failed to make reasonable financial provision for you.
Barmaid would also need to know:
(a) whether the testator is actually deceased (since you've not mentioned a date of death in your post) ; and
(b) whether probate has been applied for or granted (which would seem to be unlikely if the will is with a solicitor, rather than with the Probate Office).
Chris
Is this the same will you asked about a few weeks back?
The firm that has the will is under no obligation to speak to you at all - telling you to seek legal advice is a polite way of telling you shove off it's none of your business.
You still haven't said on what grounds you want to contest it. To do that you will need EVIDENCE. What evidence do you have - must haves or would not haves are not evidence.
If you won't say why you want to contest, no one here can give you any advice.
Though on what you've said so far I'd say don't bother - it will cost you a lot and chances of success are slim (well zero if what you've said is the full story)
The firm that has the will is under no obligation to speak to you at all - telling you to seek legal advice is a polite way of telling you shove off it's none of your business.
You still haven't said on what grounds you want to contest it. To do that you will need EVIDENCE. What evidence do you have - must haves or would not haves are not evidence.
If you won't say why you want to contest, no one here can give you any advice.
Though on what you've said so far I'd say don't bother - it will cost you a lot and chances of success are slim (well zero if what you've said is the full story)
How do you know you have to contest a will which you have not read, and what would be your grounds to challenge, the challenge to a will should be within 6 months of probate when it becomes a public document after the death of the testator.
As has been correctly stated a will is a private document and does not have to be registered by anyone. The solicitors who have assisted in the preparation of a will have no duty to provide you with details unless instructed to do so by the testator, which you would be told if you obtained legal advice, there will be nothing to stop the testator producing a later will which will render other wills invalid.
As has been correctly stated a will is a private document and does not have to be registered by anyone. The solicitors who have assisted in the preparation of a will have no duty to provide you with details unless instructed to do so by the testator, which you would be told if you obtained legal advice, there will be nothing to stop the testator producing a later will which will render other wills invalid.
Chris has asked some pertinent questions to which I need the answers before I can advise.
Can I correct a couple of misunderstandings though: There is NO time limit for contesting a WIll. A caveat does not have to be lodged within 3 or 6 months of death. As long as probate has not been granted a caveat can be lodged at any time. Even IF probate has been granted, an application can still be made for revocation of the grant.
The 3 month time limit refers to s27 advertisements, which are irrelevant.
The 6 month time limit from the date of the Grant refers to actions under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 or for claims for rectification.
On WHAT basis are you contesting this will? Lack of knowledge and approval, lack of animus testandi, lack of testamentary capacity? What? You can't contest a Will just cos you don't like it. More info and I will attempt to advise.
IF the person is dead, you are entitled to ask for details from the firm who drew up the Will on the basis of Larke v Nugus. If they are still alive, they will tell you to sling your hook.
This is a hugely technical area. I urge you to seek legal advice from a member of STEP or ACTAPs or a direct access barrister specialising in this area.
Can I correct a couple of misunderstandings though: There is NO time limit for contesting a WIll. A caveat does not have to be lodged within 3 or 6 months of death. As long as probate has not been granted a caveat can be lodged at any time. Even IF probate has been granted, an application can still be made for revocation of the grant.
The 3 month time limit refers to s27 advertisements, which are irrelevant.
The 6 month time limit from the date of the Grant refers to actions under the Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975 or for claims for rectification.
On WHAT basis are you contesting this will? Lack of knowledge and approval, lack of animus testandi, lack of testamentary capacity? What? You can't contest a Will just cos you don't like it. More info and I will attempt to advise.
IF the person is dead, you are entitled to ask for details from the firm who drew up the Will on the basis of Larke v Nugus. If they are still alive, they will tell you to sling your hook.
This is a hugely technical area. I urge you to seek legal advice from a member of STEP or ACTAPs or a direct access barrister specialising in this area.
Hi to all especially "Fade out".
I am the same person who wrote on the link 126871. I thank all who are trying to help me in this trying time having lost my Father.
I guessed correctly and called the Solicitors, whom Father had used for over 60 years. They told me his current Will had been given to another firm nearer to him (50 miles!) only 7 months ago and NOT re-written. When I spoke to the new solicitor's he told me that his own 2 blood children (of which I am one) had been left NOTHING.
The POA, finally telephoned me to give the name of Father's solicitors, something I had asked for in 3 letters, this was after I had found out who they were. I did not tell him. He even had great delight in reading an email sent from the firm of solicitors to him that his blood children were not beneficiaries. I have a horrible thought as I think the POA is an executor!!
Father had been married for over 30+ when he decided to divorce our Mother. He only fathered 2 children in his life time. It does not matter how old you are it still hurts when your parents divorce. Father remarried (JJ) 25 years ago who had her own child who was about 28+ at the time of meeting Dad. His 2nd wife is also dead.
I understand that a document has to be raised if one does not want to leave anything to a blood relatives?
How do you hold up the probate?
I had asked the POA, on several times and in 3 letters to get a copy of Dad's medical certificate (I even sent him a letter which he just had to sign) and for a copy of his death certificate. He sent me the copy of the death certificate which said Father had Dementia. The POA was getting very nasty about why I should want his medical records on several occasions. Both of us have serious medical problems and many unanswered questions, could now be given to our different Consultants. I was smelling a very large RAT.
(Getting the medical records are in hand, thanks to a retired GP living nearby)
Can you see why my sibling & myself want to contest the Will, as it has been left to a none blood person (2nd Wife daughter). I would be happy with a 3 way split.
Once again thank you all for helping me, as I am doing this all by myself in this city.
I am the same person who wrote on the link 126871. I thank all who are trying to help me in this trying time having lost my Father.
I guessed correctly and called the Solicitors, whom Father had used for over 60 years. They told me his current Will had been given to another firm nearer to him (50 miles!) only 7 months ago and NOT re-written. When I spoke to the new solicitor's he told me that his own 2 blood children (of which I am one) had been left NOTHING.
The POA, finally telephoned me to give the name of Father's solicitors, something I had asked for in 3 letters, this was after I had found out who they were. I did not tell him. He even had great delight in reading an email sent from the firm of solicitors to him that his blood children were not beneficiaries. I have a horrible thought as I think the POA is an executor!!
Father had been married for over 30+ when he decided to divorce our Mother. He only fathered 2 children in his life time. It does not matter how old you are it still hurts when your parents divorce. Father remarried (JJ) 25 years ago who had her own child who was about 28+ at the time of meeting Dad. His 2nd wife is also dead.
I understand that a document has to be raised if one does not want to leave anything to a blood relatives?
How do you hold up the probate?
I had asked the POA, on several times and in 3 letters to get a copy of Dad's medical certificate (I even sent him a letter which he just had to sign) and for a copy of his death certificate. He sent me the copy of the death certificate which said Father had Dementia. The POA was getting very nasty about why I should want his medical records on several occasions. Both of us have serious medical problems and many unanswered questions, could now be given to our different Consultants. I was smelling a very large RAT.
(Getting the medical records are in hand, thanks to a retired GP living nearby)
Can you see why my sibling & myself want to contest the Will, as it has been left to a none blood person (2nd Wife daughter). I would be happy with a 3 way split.
Once again thank you all for helping me, as I am doing this all by myself in this city.
Hi Barmaid
Thanks for the advice - I had a feeling this would be the case. I am better at Maths than English and get a bit tied in knots when writing letters.
Have found out the cost of a solicitor would be £210 + vat per hr, as I am not well enough to work that price is very steep.
What is your view/answer about the "exclusion"?
Here's a hypothetical question, in your experience how long would it take to sort this out?
Thanks for the advice - I had a feeling this would be the case. I am better at Maths than English and get a bit tied in knots when writing letters.
Have found out the cost of a solicitor would be £210 + vat per hr, as I am not well enough to work that price is very steep.
What is your view/answer about the "exclusion"?
Here's a hypothetical question, in your experience how long would it take to sort this out?
Without seeing the entire file, I couldnt actually comment on the exclusion, but testators often have reasons for excluding blood relatives - some may affect the validity of the will and some may not.
As to how long it will take, I am afraid that is a question I cannot possibly answer. It could take a couple of years (and a LOT of money) or it could be dealt with quite quickly. Much depends on the evidence - from those who drew up the Will, the witnesses, the doctor etc. Without seeing the whole file, it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell and even then litigation is a constantly moving goal.
I suggest that what you do is google barristers in your area who a) are licensed to accept public access clients and b) specialise in Wills and Probate. Phone their clerks (or email) and ask for a fees quote. You may well get a fixed rate quote. It would be worth asking the question. It may also be possible to speak to a barrister - certainly many will give an indication of what they think in a telephone convo.
As to how long it will take, I am afraid that is a question I cannot possibly answer. It could take a couple of years (and a LOT of money) or it could be dealt with quite quickly. Much depends on the evidence - from those who drew up the Will, the witnesses, the doctor etc. Without seeing the whole file, it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell and even then litigation is a constantly moving goal.
I suggest that what you do is google barristers in your area who a) are licensed to accept public access clients and b) specialise in Wills and Probate. Phone their clerks (or email) and ask for a fees quote. You may well get a fixed rate quote. It would be worth asking the question. It may also be possible to speak to a barrister - certainly many will give an indication of what they think in a telephone convo.
Hi Barmaid
I see that unfortunately you live up North. I take it that you are still in the work place as your advice has been very valuable tonight. I will get back after having spoken to my Sister who lives in the Midlands. Now for some us we have to go to bed, as I have a 14 year Boarder Terrier who has an internal clock of 5.30/6.00 AM
Thank you
I see that unfortunately you live up North. I take it that you are still in the work place as your advice has been very valuable tonight. I will get back after having spoken to my Sister who lives in the Midlands. Now for some us we have to go to bed, as I have a 14 year Boarder Terrier who has an internal clock of 5.30/6.00 AM
Thank you
Hi some basic advise write to the solicitors and ask them for a copy stating that you are a next of kin (I take it that you now know which Solicitors has the will) send the letter by recorded delivery and name a solicitor at the firm that deals with wills (Google them). Believe me they will write back and provide a copy they have no reason to hide anything. Then read it through and decide if you really have a case (and are in the right a judge would like to that your in the right and have grounds too) before you go any further, lots of people spend fortunes in legal fees contesting wills and the only people that get rich are solicitors, take note no solicitors that you are paying will ever say "forget it your wasting money and don't have a chance" they want a drawn out war so they can charge you £100 a hour to send letters that they only sign and never read,
Be warned you could loose a fortune !
PS If you still don't know who has the will send a basic "are you dealing with the estate of Mr???" letter to all the local solicitors. They will all write back even if they are not dealing with it.......solicitors love letters LOL
Hope Ive helped. RJ
Be warned you could loose a fortune !
PS If you still don't know who has the will send a basic "are you dealing with the estate of Mr???" letter to all the local solicitors. They will all write back even if they are not dealing with it.......solicitors love letters LOL
Hope Ive helped. RJ
Oh and do not belive the people that say you cannot do this your self because 90% of it can be done with simple letters. My Dad died and had so little money (£15-20k) that I phoned the solicitors and said I wanted to deal with it all myself they agreed handed over the will and I executed everything myself saving us all £5k so all of his money went to the right people not a penny on legal fees ! Except my brother who employed his own solicitor to check the will over only to find it was all right down to the last penny I hope he choked on the bill LOL
Hi RJ
Thanks for the info. I took a flyer and asked my Father's old solicitors (who he had used for 50yrs) if they had the will. They said they had drawn one up in 2008 but the business was taken away in November 2012 to London. Cut the story short, I spoke to the solicitor who is also an executor, and informed me that neither my sibling nor me was named in my Fathers will. The solicitor informed me that the POA was also an executor! something he had not told anyone at the funeral. I think everything has been left to his 2nd wife's daughter - no blood relative AT ALL. I am not next of kin.
Even my sibling asked the solicitors who wrote the will for information. They were very cagey as they were not aware of the two of us! I do not think the original solicitors have followed the rules correctly!! Agin they said to engaged solicitors.
I am not sure where you live but £100 ph would only buy half an hour here.
I agree, they only like to bounce the papers around to make money between themselves and use long old fashioned words. I am trying another avenue in the morning before spending 4 hours in the hospital.
I still need another way to get a copy of the will before it is too late.
Thanks for the info. I took a flyer and asked my Father's old solicitors (who he had used for 50yrs) if they had the will. They said they had drawn one up in 2008 but the business was taken away in November 2012 to London. Cut the story short, I spoke to the solicitor who is also an executor, and informed me that neither my sibling nor me was named in my Fathers will. The solicitor informed me that the POA was also an executor! something he had not told anyone at the funeral. I think everything has been left to his 2nd wife's daughter - no blood relative AT ALL. I am not next of kin.
Even my sibling asked the solicitors who wrote the will for information. They were very cagey as they were not aware of the two of us! I do not think the original solicitors have followed the rules correctly!! Agin they said to engaged solicitors.
I am not sure where you live but £100 ph would only buy half an hour here.
I agree, they only like to bounce the papers around to make money between themselves and use long old fashioned words. I am trying another avenue in the morning before spending 4 hours in the hospital.
I still need another way to get a copy of the will before it is too late.
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