Shoyld more be done for ex-soldiers?

[Gromit]

Ex-Sodliers

Three horrible crimes in today's Daily Mail  and they are connected because the crimes have been committed by ex-soldiers.

The man suspected of abducting April Jones turns out to be an ex-soldier.
http://www.dailymail....desperate-search.html

The rider of Sefton who survived an IRA attack has this week stabbed his children to death.
http://www.dailymail....gs-friends-claim.html

And a man who killed and dismembered his mother was an ex-soldier.
http://www.dailymail....rotesque-killing.html

Coupled with the fact that a large percentage of people in prison and sleeping rough on our streets are also ex-soldiers, it is clear that the soldiers and ourselves are being badly let own by the current system.

Can anything be done?

[friedgreentomato]

Some ex forces find it very difficult to get used to civvie street. In my experience the forces do help retrain you for a new career - I know my father trained as a chef and one of my brothers a brickie.

But they need the support of their families too and the families sometimes struggle to settle after living on bases.

[daffy654]

My ex RAF brother went completely off the rails after leaving the force (17 years service straight from school). He still isn't right many years later.

[DTCwordfan]

Yes Gromit, they need to look at exit programmes.

With somewhere between 8 to 12% of the prison population being ex military ( some 8000 prisoners) and an estimated 25% of those living out on the streets (est Scotland), then this is a huge issue, numbers far greater than those currently serving.

The Minister for Prisons and the Home Sec need to pull their digits out and dig into this on a X-Parliamentary basis to come up with better exit training.....

[doctordb]

More falkland veterans have taken their own lives since the conflict than the number that died during the actual campaign.

More needs to be done, although, i'm sure it has improved since then but I fear for this current generation who have been involved in some of the worst combat since the second world war.

[youngmafbog]

One big problem is that you train people to kill and then wonder why they do it later. I'm not sure how you get round this, but we do need to.

Perhaps the reason nothing seems to be done, or what is done does not work, is that no one knows how to undo the 'killing machine'. I cant see any other reason why it would not be done after all even on a purely monetary basis it would pay to get it sorted.

[jake-the-peg]

Average Soldier's qualifications is 1 GCSE

Army will still take people with criminal records

Yes some have PTSD but in some cases they were dangerous when they went in and guess what they're dangerous when they come out.

The armed forces could start by disqualifying applicant-heros with criminal records

[sp1814]

JTP makes a sound comment about qualifications. Because regaular soldiers (not those entering officer training courses) can start their career with little or no formal qualifications, when they leave, they can find it extremely difficult entering the job market.

The forces' advertising tells us how the men and women can develop personal skills, but unless they have specific skills (IT, engineering, communications, medical, statistical analysis), the ordinary squaddie will face an uphill battle when they enter the job market.

They can also have the additional problem of fitting back into civilian life after the structure of service life.

Why so many end up on the streets and/or in jail is a national shame which really needs to be addressed at the highest level (the Ministry Of Defence).

[anotheoldgit]

Some on this site regularly ask why do certain newspapers especially the Daily Mail have to mention the perpetrators 'colour' when it comes to certain crimes, and they wouldn't dare remark that blacks take up a large proportion of prison inmates.

Yet they readily hook on to the fact that some soldiers (ex or serving), commit crimes and large proportions of them inhabit our prisons.

Why the double standards one asks, and I wonder how many Plumbers, Builders etc, etc also commit crimes?

[youngmafbog]

Jake, you sort of have a point but why so pompous about it? Why assume that anyone without a qualification is thick and dangerous?

AOG, again see your point but don't you think this is a serious issue that the country should address to prevent 'Our boys' from finding the wrong path when they leave? I think your link to racism etc is rather tenuous in this particular case.

[Old_Geezer]

I do not believe that soldiers should be considered a special case simply because they are, or have been, soldiers; but sure, anyone who needs help adjusting to life should be able to get some, regardless of occupation. It is in society's interest to keep it's citizens safe from an individual cracking under the strain. Regardless whether it is lack of intelligence or past experiences, or some other explanation.

So, what is suggested that could be considered a useful thing to invest in to reduce the chances of these sorts of incident ?

[anotheoldgit]

youngmafbog

/// AOG, again see your point but don't you think this is a serious issue that the country should address to prevent 'Our boys' from finding the wrong path when they leave? ///

Yes I agree it is a very serious issue, 'Our Boys & Girls' should be given all the opportunities they deserve, not only in adjusting fully to civilian life, but also in gaining a roof over their heads and the chance of getting a job, after all ex jail prisoners are given more support than the ex-military.

/// I think your link to racism etc is rather tenuous in this particular case. ///

Like so many others on this site who have never been slow in diverting away from the subject in general so as to get over a point themselves, I thought that I might just as well do the same myself.

[sp1814]

AOG

I wonder whether you may be mis-remembering something here.

You have questioned why the black population of prisons is higher than the proportion of blacks in the UK generally.

I remember that thread because someone else (I think it was JTP) pointed out that the number of ex-servicemen in jails was far greater than their numbers as a proportion of adults.

Then you went quiet.

...because it totally undercut the thrust of your argument at the time.

So, it's not really the Daily Mail that was being criticised - it was you.

You didn't answer then, and I would be interested to hear your opinion this[i time (fingers crossed you won't go quiet again), because this is a serious problem, and I know you have great regard for the armed services.

So what's [i]your] opinion.

[sp1814]

Like so many others on this site who have never been slow in diverting away from the subject in general so as to get over a point themselves, I thought that I might just as well do the same myself.

AOG - are you saying that you never divert from a subject to bring race into a question?

Really???

[sp1814]

AOG

Now we're getting to the meat of the problem. Many of the issues faced by ex-servicemen seem to stem from them not being able to get a job once out of the services.

Do you think it would be a good idea for the MoD to fund retraining schemes, or better still - subsidise ex-personnel who don't have many formal qualifications?

At least that way, they can get their foot on the ladder.

[emmie]

perhaps some of the problem stems from their service, seeing action in a country like Afghanistan for example, your mate is blown to pieces by an IED, or takes a bullet from a trained Afghan policeman or soldier doesn't make you stable i am sure. No more than the poor WW1 soldiers who were shot for cowardice, those in reality were likely suffering from shellshock. There is a good organisation out there for rehabilitation of service personnel, though i can't remember the name at present. I do think the gung ho mentality in some can create mental instability on leaving the services and that much more should be done to help them rehabilitate into civilian life.

[modeller]

Many teenagers from broken homes or no homes join the services to get a home . So it's not surprising when they leave the services they are back where they started. I met them in my army days a long time ago.
It's not the army's fault but I agree something should be done to give them vocational training.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

Not a single Daily Mail quote.

/// multiple research studies examined recently showed military veterans comprised at least 10% of the prison population in England and Wales. The Ministry of Defence denied the claim and said the figure was 3.4%. ///

http://www.guardian.c...itary-veterans-prison

/// - Out of the British national prison population, 10% are black and 4% are Asian.315 For black Britons this is significantly higher than the 2% of the general population they represent. ///

/// - Overall black prisoners account for the largest number of minority ethnic prisoners (54%). Between 1999 and 2002 the total prison population grew by just over 12% but the number of black prisoners increased by 51%. ///

http://www.prisonrefo...ProjectsResearch/Race

[anotheoldgit]

I think some of you such as JTP, give our service personnel a bad name, when they state they are somehow short in qualifications, and are somehow homeless, illiterate criminal types.

Well let me remind you that it is the more law abiding type of lad and girl who join the forces these days, so as to be employed, because even if they have numerous qualifications or even a degree, they find it very hard these days to get a job.

The majority are happy to hang around the streets jobless, and it is these that get into trouble, those involved in the recent riots/ looting are prime examples.

No the lads and girls who join the forces are the type who are prepared to be instilled with a certain amount of discipline and responsibility, whereas those others prefer to live off the state, because they think that the country owes them a living.