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Further to the Manchester Congestion charge..........
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..........I've lived in Manchester all my life, originally quite near the City Centre, just off Oldham Road. As the traffic has increased over the years, the council has done the best/worst, it can, to slow it down under varying descriptions, e.g. traffic calming, safety systems etc. They've done this by road narrowing, bus lanes, speed bumps, traffic islands, small roundabouts, restrictive lane markings etc. They've done this on lots of roads in Manchester that were originally built for the horse and cart and have never been widened. The result of all that is congestion, and the council will blame motorists and other road users when it's actually been caused by dreamers in the council with a Utopian outlook. What should happen is that all of the above should be removed completely. Under-used, wide pavements should be narrowed, as there are far less pedestrians now. Councils should be catering for transport, not opposing it. As you might have guessed, I voted NO!
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I also voted no as I live in new moston and couldnt find out what they were going to do for residents as every time we would take out the car we would have been charged!!!
My sister has lived thro the congestion charging in London and there is no difference to the congestion and no improvement in the public transport either
My sister has lived thro the congestion charging in London and there is no difference to the congestion and no improvement in the public transport either
Not strictly true.
Although most transport companies are private concerns many of them receive huge amounts of public funding. This is particularly true of the railways.
The reason why this should be so is that they could not run a decent level of service without this support unless fares were raised to even more ridiculously high levels.
Although most transport companies are private concerns many of them receive huge amounts of public funding. This is particularly true of the railways.
The reason why this should be so is that they could not run a decent level of service without this support unless fares were raised to even more ridiculously high levels.
10c � I agree. Although there is no doubt that the number of vehicles on the road has increased substantially in the last 10 years, the various Local Authorities [LAs] have compounded the problem by implementing �traffic calming� measures and converting whole carriageways in bus lanes. While it�s easy to blame the LAs for this, there is a reason for it � Central Government gives LAs certain monies to spend in any given financial year. These monies are �ring-fenced� (ie . cannot be used for any other purpose) for either traffic calming or bus lanes. If the LAs don�t spend the money, they lose it. So in order to keep the various civil engineers in work, LAs spend the money the way the Government wants them to.
The result of this is clear for all to see. Artificially created congestion. I believe that that is the Government�s main aim � to help create congestion throughout the whole country as a means to implementing congestion charging schemes in order to further tax the motorist. From their point of view, it�s a great new revenue stream.
What really gets my goat is that the Government has already hinted that the �No� vote may be irrelevant anyway as the vote was merely a �consultative exercise�. Whether we like it or not, road charging is coming and there is very little we can do about it.
Like a serial rapist, our Government and the EU do not seem to understand that �No� means �No�.
The result of this is clear for all to see. Artificially created congestion. I believe that that is the Government�s main aim � to help create congestion throughout the whole country as a means to implementing congestion charging schemes in order to further tax the motorist. From their point of view, it�s a great new revenue stream.
What really gets my goat is that the Government has already hinted that the �No� vote may be irrelevant anyway as the vote was merely a �consultative exercise�. Whether we like it or not, road charging is coming and there is very little we can do about it.
Like a serial rapist, our Government and the EU do not seem to understand that �No� means �No�.
Most businesses rely on roads to either transport goods or so their employees can get to work. Non of these businesses build their own roads, they are built by the state from public taxes.
A lot of fuss has been made of the �9bn cost of upgrading the West Coast rail line over the past five years. The amount spent on roads during the same period was �30bn.
The reason why roads and rail lines are subsidised by the state (using our taxes) is because both infrastructure are vital to our economy.
Road congestion in our towns and cities is a problem that needs fixing. Manchester residents have voted not to mend it by reducing demand by charging for it. However, the problem will not go away and it will get worse.
A lot of fuss has been made of the �9bn cost of upgrading the West Coast rail line over the past five years. The amount spent on roads during the same period was �30bn.
The reason why roads and rail lines are subsidised by the state (using our taxes) is because both infrastructure are vital to our economy.
Road congestion in our towns and cities is a problem that needs fixing. Manchester residents have voted not to mend it by reducing demand by charging for it. However, the problem will not go away and it will get worse.
Gromit � �Manchester residents have voted not to mend it by reducing demand by charging for it.�
No they haven�t. Manchester residents have not said, �We don�t want improved public transport�. What they have said is, �We don�t want to be charged for using roads which we�ve already paid for�. There is a significant difference. Ask anyone if they want better public transport and they�ll say �yes�. Ask a motorist if they want to pay for it and they�ll say �no�. Turkeys don�t vote for Christmas, as one Manchester resident put it.
Ask yourself this � do you think it�s fair that motorists should have to pay through the nose for better public transport? This quote from the www.wevoteyes.co.uk web site - �The biggest group of people who won't have to pay the congestion charge are the thousands of people who already use public transport.�. By definition, the people who will benefit least from these so called improvements will be the motorist, but they�ll be the ones paying.
We were told that the congestion charge will put more buses on the roads � the actual number is undisclosed. We were told that there would be better and more bus routes across Manchester � again, how many and where will they be? The whole thing was so vague.
And finally, we were also told that the Metrolink would be extended. However, the proposed Metrolink expansion adds just 18 miles of track but accounts for around half of the councils' total transport spend - a massive �1.2 billion. Virtually all of the Rochdale, Oldham and Tameside extensions have already been funded and will be built regardless of a �no� vote. Is 18 miles of extra track really the best way to spend �1.2 billion?
No they haven�t. Manchester residents have not said, �We don�t want improved public transport�. What they have said is, �We don�t want to be charged for using roads which we�ve already paid for�. There is a significant difference. Ask anyone if they want better public transport and they�ll say �yes�. Ask a motorist if they want to pay for it and they�ll say �no�. Turkeys don�t vote for Christmas, as one Manchester resident put it.
Ask yourself this � do you think it�s fair that motorists should have to pay through the nose for better public transport? This quote from the www.wevoteyes.co.uk web site - �The biggest group of people who won't have to pay the congestion charge are the thousands of people who already use public transport.�. By definition, the people who will benefit least from these so called improvements will be the motorist, but they�ll be the ones paying.
We were told that the congestion charge will put more buses on the roads � the actual number is undisclosed. We were told that there would be better and more bus routes across Manchester � again, how many and where will they be? The whole thing was so vague.
And finally, we were also told that the Metrolink would be extended. However, the proposed Metrolink expansion adds just 18 miles of track but accounts for around half of the councils' total transport spend - a massive �1.2 billion. Virtually all of the Rochdale, Oldham and Tameside extensions have already been funded and will be built regardless of a �no� vote. Is 18 miles of extra track really the best way to spend �1.2 billion?
>Under-used, wide pavements should be narrowed,
Maybe get rid of pavements completely and force everyone to drive :-)
We as a nation HAVE to do something stop this stupid lemming like support of the roads at the expense of everything else.
For years we have removed housing from the centre of cities, and replaced them with offices.
As many areas around city centres became slum-like more and more people moved out the suburbs.
So all the business is in the centre of cities, and all the people live on the edge of cities, what a stupid situation.
We need a long term plan of joined up thinking where industry and business is built nearby rail and bus services.
If we dont then we are going to continue this stupid situation of people spending a hour in their car getting to work and an hour in their car coming home from work.
I dont blame any council bringing in measures to slow traffic down, if it encourages people to use more public transport.
Things HAVE to change, but the direction has to come from the top, from Government.
Maybe get rid of pavements completely and force everyone to drive :-)
We as a nation HAVE to do something stop this stupid lemming like support of the roads at the expense of everything else.
For years we have removed housing from the centre of cities, and replaced them with offices.
As many areas around city centres became slum-like more and more people moved out the suburbs.
So all the business is in the centre of cities, and all the people live on the edge of cities, what a stupid situation.
We need a long term plan of joined up thinking where industry and business is built nearby rail and bus services.
If we dont then we are going to continue this stupid situation of people spending a hour in their car getting to work and an hour in their car coming home from work.
I dont blame any council bringing in measures to slow traffic down, if it encourages people to use more public transport.
Things HAVE to change, but the direction has to come from the top, from Government.
Things do not have to change if the electorate does not want them to.
The idea of democracy is that elected representatives represent and promote the wishes of the majority of their constituents - not the wishes of their political leaders or of their own personal ideology. The sooner that idea is resurrected the better.
The people of Manchester have had a rare opportunity to state their preference on a specific issue. Thay have spoken and their decision should be respected.
The idea of democracy is that elected representatives represent and promote the wishes of the majority of their constituents - not the wishes of their political leaders or of their own personal ideology. The sooner that idea is resurrected the better.
The people of Manchester have had a rare opportunity to state their preference on a specific issue. Thay have spoken and their decision should be respected.
New Judge � �The idea of democracy is that elected representatives represent and promote the wishes of the majority of their constituents - not the wishes of their political leaders or of their own personal ideology. The sooner that idea is resurrected the better.�
I could not agree more. But we seem to be going the other way. The wishes of the people now seem to count for very little when politicians get it into their heads that they �rule� the people rather than �represent� them.
The Irish �no� vote is a classic point in question. They are being forced into having another vote in order that they vote the �correct� way.
As Bertolt Brecht once said, �When government doesn't agree with the people, it's time to change the people�.
I could not agree more. But we seem to be going the other way. The wishes of the people now seem to count for very little when politicians get it into their heads that they �rule� the people rather than �represent� them.
The Irish �no� vote is a classic point in question. They are being forced into having another vote in order that they vote the �correct� way.
As Bertolt Brecht once said, �When government doesn't agree with the people, it's time to change the people�.
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