Body & Soul0 min ago
Wuhan Goes Viral, Again.
39 Answers
https:/
Something about repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome.
You can run but you can't hide.
Something about repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome.
You can run but you can't hide.
Answers
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// This virus has a genetic footprint that has never been seen in a virus before //
Er yes, that is why it is a NEW virus. Though it is similar to other coronaviruses.
// highly suggests it was messed about with //
No. If it was something that had been messed around with, the slicing or deleting of the DNA would be visible and evident. An no such modifications are modifications can be seen.
Er yes, that is why it is a NEW virus. Though it is similar to other coronaviruses.
// highly suggests it was messed about with //
No. If it was something that had been messed around with, the slicing or deleting of the DNA would be visible and evident. An no such modifications are modifications can be seen.
Yes, I read it at the time it was first published.
So I guess you cherry picked the bits that suit your view of things?
Tell me, if these wet markets have been going for centuries, why have we never seen a pandemic this this originate from one before?
Why have China refused to let the lab data be analysed? What have they got to hide?
So I guess you cherry picked the bits that suit your view of things?
Tell me, if these wet markets have been going for centuries, why have we never seen a pandemic this this originate from one before?
Why have China refused to let the lab data be analysed? What have they got to hide?
Actually, Gromit, I read that such "slicings" would be untraceable.
Here's an extract of another article I read:
//One tell-tale sign of alleged manipulation the two men highlighted was a row of four amino acids they found on the SARS-Cov-2 spike.
In an exclusive interview with DailyMail.com, Sørensen said the amino acids all have a positive charge, which cause the virus to tightly cling to the negatively charged parts of human cells like a magnet, and so become more infectious.
But because, like magnets, the positively charged amino acids repel each other, it is rare to find even three in a row in naturally occurring organisms, while four in a row is 'extremely unlikely,' the scientist said.
'The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row. The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it,' Dalgleish told DailyMail.com.
Their new paper says these features of SARS-Cov-2 are 'unique fingerprints' which are 'indicative of purposive manipulation', and that 'the likelihood of it being the result of natural processes is very small.'
'A natural virus pandemic would be expected to mutate gradually and become more infectious but less pathogenic which is what many expected with the COVID-19 pandemic but which does not appear to have happened,' the scientists wrote.
'The implication of our historical reconstruction, we posit now beyond reasonable doubt, of the purposively manipulated chimeric virus SARS-CoV-2 makes it imperative to reconsider what types of Gain of Function experiments it is morally acceptable to undertake.
'Because of wide social impact, these decisions cannot be left to research scientists alone.'//
Here's an extract of another article I read:
//One tell-tale sign of alleged manipulation the two men highlighted was a row of four amino acids they found on the SARS-Cov-2 spike.
In an exclusive interview with DailyMail.com, Sørensen said the amino acids all have a positive charge, which cause the virus to tightly cling to the negatively charged parts of human cells like a magnet, and so become more infectious.
But because, like magnets, the positively charged amino acids repel each other, it is rare to find even three in a row in naturally occurring organisms, while four in a row is 'extremely unlikely,' the scientist said.
'The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row. The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it,' Dalgleish told DailyMail.com.
Their new paper says these features of SARS-Cov-2 are 'unique fingerprints' which are 'indicative of purposive manipulation', and that 'the likelihood of it being the result of natural processes is very small.'
'A natural virus pandemic would be expected to mutate gradually and become more infectious but less pathogenic which is what many expected with the COVID-19 pandemic but which does not appear to have happened,' the scientists wrote.
'The implication of our historical reconstruction, we posit now beyond reasonable doubt, of the purposively manipulated chimeric virus SARS-CoV-2 makes it imperative to reconsider what types of Gain of Function experiments it is morally acceptable to undertake.
'Because of wide social impact, these decisions cannot be left to research scientists alone.'//
“ Something about repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome.
You can run but you can't hide”
Eh?
They don’t mess about that’s for sure. Testing the entire city?!
The fact that the delta variant has hit China is hardly a surprise and had nothing to do with arguments about whether it was a lab or a market.
They almost certainly HAVE been free if they virus for the simple reason that to control it you need to take measures you can’t really hide. Where they were slow was sleeting the rest of the world.
Given the thing started in China and given the repressive nature of the regime it’s not surprising they managed to get a grip on it comparatively quickly!
You can run but you can't hide”
Eh?
They don’t mess about that’s for sure. Testing the entire city?!
The fact that the delta variant has hit China is hardly a surprise and had nothing to do with arguments about whether it was a lab or a market.
They almost certainly HAVE been free if they virus for the simple reason that to control it you need to take measures you can’t really hide. Where they were slow was sleeting the rest of the world.
Given the thing started in China and given the repressive nature of the regime it’s not surprising they managed to get a grip on it comparatively quickly!
The report has been widely debunked
// The report’s authors [Birger Sørensen and Angus Dalgleish] also claim the lack of mutation in the virus since its discovery, suggests it was already fully adapted to humans. //
As we now know, the suggestion that it is manmade because it doesn’t mutate is rather undermined by the variants that we are now seeing.
https:/
// The report’s authors [Birger Sørensen and Angus Dalgleish] also claim the lack of mutation in the virus since its discovery, suggests it was already fully adapted to humans. //
As we now know, the suggestion that it is manmade because it doesn’t mutate is rather undermined by the variants that we are now seeing.
https:/
It's very difficult to prove a negative, and of course there are plenty of reasons to distrust the Chinese Government over Covid origins. The "why didn't this happen before" argument seems weird -- it *has* happened before, many, many times, that a virus has passed from animals to humans. Examples include, but are by no means limited to, SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu, Ebola, HIV, and many others.
The most comprehensive review of the origins of Covid is available here:
https:/
The conclusion states:
// We contend that there is [a] substantial body of scientific evidence supporting a zoonotic origin for SARS-CoV-2. While the possibility of a laboratory accident cannot be entirely dismissed, and may be near impossible to falsify, this conduit for emergence is highly unlikely relative to the numerous and repeated human-animal contacts that occur routinely in the wildlife trade. //
Covid was (probably) just bad luck.
The most comprehensive review of the origins of Covid is available here:
https:/
The conclusion states:
// We contend that there is [a] substantial body of scientific evidence supporting a zoonotic origin for SARS-CoV-2. While the possibility of a laboratory accident cannot be entirely dismissed, and may be near impossible to falsify, this conduit for emergence is highly unlikely relative to the numerous and repeated human-animal contacts that occur routinely in the wildlife trade. //
Covid was (probably) just bad luck.
// it does seem far more likely than this is not a bioengineered virus,//
yup spot on - a bit complex - you look at the variation ( variation against what? candidate viruses or possible source viruses that they bioengineered) along the whole m-RNA
and find it resembles various wild types in various animals but there are no jerky bits where the cuts were made
andI quite liked the conspiracy of - they made a virus which killed everyone including the chinese and didnt mutate,
- well they didnt get the zero mutation bit right did they?
yup spot on - a bit complex - you look at the variation ( variation against what? candidate viruses or possible source viruses that they bioengineered) along the whole m-RNA
and find it resembles various wild types in various animals but there are no jerky bits where the cuts were made
andI quite liked the conspiracy of - they made a virus which killed everyone including the chinese and didnt mutate,
- well they didnt get the zero mutation bit right did they?
// The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row. The only way you can get this is if you artificially manufacture it,' //
if the laws of phys forbid - four in a row -
then you CANNOT manufacture it because the laws of physics apply in a lab as well
lordy lordy
actually the receptor has mutated to exert a stronger attraction that the first one ( which is kinda why Delta is worse) - so the idea that it can only be done in a lab is skewered
anyother points you want answered? it is just a long plea to be famous for 15 m.
if the laws of phys forbid - four in a row -
then you CANNOT manufacture it because the laws of physics apply in a lab as well
lordy lordy
actually the receptor has mutated to exert a stronger attraction that the first one ( which is kinda why Delta is worse) - so the idea that it can only be done in a lab is skewered
anyother points you want answered? it is just a long plea to be famous for 15 m.
Question:"Tell me, if these wet markets have been going for centuries, why have we never seen a pandemic this this originate from one before? "
An answer: "The "why didn't this happen before" argument seems weird -- it *has* happened before, many, many times, that a virus has passed from animals to humans. Examples include, but are by no means limited to, SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu, Ebola, HIV, and many others."
jim360, your own zenodo Link states:
"Although no bat reservoir nor intermediate animal host for SARS-CoV-2 has been identified to date, initial cross-species transmission events are very likely to go undetected. Most SARS-CoV-2 index case infections are unlikely to have resulted in sustained onward transmission20and only a very small subset of spillover events from animals to humans result in major outbreaks. Indeed, the animal origins of many well-known human pathogens, including Ebola virus, Hepatitis C virus, poliovirus, and the coronaviruses HCoV-HKU1 and HCoV-NL63, are yet to be identified,This document is copyright of the authors. It is made available under a CC-BY-NC-ND 4.0 International license.while it took over a decade to discover bat viruses with >95% similarity to SARS-CoV and able to use hACE-2 as a receptor21."
LadyCG, I have NO idea whether it came from the wet market, those who say they do are wrong, unless they can provide decisive evidence, which NO-ONE has to date , but it is also NOT impossible.( i.e. pure chance or as jim360 said, bad luck. )
How non-experts (hello Gromit) can say whether highly esoteric, cutting edge, complex technology like gene cutting/splicing can be 'detectived', when experts in these complex technologies disagree(= don't know) is bizarre.
18 months on and the Mail Link cannot even get the distance of the Wuhan Institute of Virology from the wet market: "somehow the virus escaped and spread via the Huanan market which was just two miles from the institute."
--- no, it is just under 9 miles away as the roads go, not as the birds or drones fly; which itself is another possible red herring.
And if it did come from a Lab, why would it have to be that Lab ?
Case untried, insufficient evidence... we might never get to the bottom of this.
An answer: "The "why didn't this happen before" argument seems weird -- it *has* happened before, many, many times, that a virus has passed from animals to humans. Examples include, but are by no means limited to, SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu, Ebola, HIV, and many others."
jim360, your own zenodo Link states:
"Although no bat reservoir nor intermediate animal host for SARS-CoV-2 has been identified to date, initial cross-species transmission events are very likely to go undetected. Most SARS-CoV-2 index case infections are unlikely to have resulted in sustained onward transmission20and only a very small subset of spillover events from animals to humans result in major outbreaks. Indeed, the animal origins of many well-known human pathogens, including Ebola virus, Hepatitis C virus, poliovirus, and the coronaviruses HCoV-HKU1 and HCoV-NL63, are yet to be identified,This document is copyright of the authors. It is made available under a CC-BY-NC-ND 4.0 International license.while it took over a decade to discover bat viruses with >95% similarity to SARS-CoV and able to use hACE-2 as a receptor21."
LadyCG, I have NO idea whether it came from the wet market, those who say they do are wrong, unless they can provide decisive evidence, which NO-ONE has to date , but it is also NOT impossible.( i.e. pure chance or as jim360 said, bad luck. )
How non-experts (hello Gromit) can say whether highly esoteric, cutting edge, complex technology like gene cutting/splicing can be 'detectived', when experts in these complex technologies disagree(= don't know) is bizarre.
18 months on and the Mail Link cannot even get the distance of the Wuhan Institute of Virology from the wet market: "somehow the virus escaped and spread via the Huanan market which was just two miles from the institute."
--- no, it is just under 9 miles away as the roads go, not as the birds or drones fly; which itself is another possible red herring.
And if it did come from a Lab, why would it have to be that Lab ?
Case untried, insufficient evidence... we might never get to the bottom of this.
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