After 10 Months, Lockdown Aint Worked............

[10ClarionSt]

............but they still don't see it. Is Bojo the Clown going to resign? Nah!!
20,000 deaths, carry on with lockdown.
50,000 deaths, carry on with lockdown
70,000 deaths, carry on with lockdown
100,000 deaths, carry on with lockdown.
From what I can see, nothing will stop this virus. It's finding the weakest and most vulnerable and it will continue to do so. Johnson seems to be taking the stance that he will continue to act like King Canute, then go home and put his Emperors' New Clothes on. Let's see what he says when the figures hit 200,000 in short time.

[emmie]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-announces-national-lockdown

[jim360]

It *has* worked. It *is* working. You don't need 100% compliance in order to have a measureable and significant effect on the progress of the pandemic.

What matters is that the restrictions were, especially over September-October and then in December, woefully inadequate to control the spread. In particular the Tier system (for tiers 1-3 at least) was pointless and ineffective, and it's wrong for Ministers to continue defending it.

There will never be full compliance to any measure, even with effective enforcement, but that is not nearly as important an issue as getting the restrictions right in the first place.

[roslyn251254]

I can't understand why the hospitals still have many covid patients who are classed as the "vulnerable - or with underlying health conditions" filling up the wards - surely such folk should have been staying home ...where have they caught it from?

[emmie]

get restrictions in place, fine, get 65 million to obey, not so fine.

[Arrods]

"Johnson seems to be taking the stance that he will continue to act like King Canute".

A rare compliment from 10ClarionSt, to anyone knowing the true story about KC and the tide!

[david small]

Can’t help wondering how we would have fared if we’d stuck to herd immunity. Many would have recovered and maybe the mutations of the virus would not be as effective. Plus our economy would not be trashed. Mental illness not so prevalent. Hospital waiting lists not so high. Unemployment and bankruptcy far less than now. Just a thought.

[Zacs-Master]

'Can’t help wondering how we would have fared if we’d stuck to herd immunity'

The NHS would have been overrun, as has been said thousands of times on here, on the news, on social media.

[Sunk]

It would be silly to pretend that mistakes have not be made. Problem is, the mistakes are not being admitted, so it is unlikely we are learning from our mistakes.

Certainly, the situation 10 months into the pandemic is far more dire than we all thought it would be at the beginning.

[10ClarionSt]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I have not changed my mind about anything. It's arrogant and ignorant of some people to say detremental things about me just because I don't agree with others.

How many of the deaths since the beginning of December, have been people who have had the vaccination? Are there any? Has this question been asked already to V&W, Bojo, Hancock etc?

How many of those people testing positive went on to develop symptoms, let alone the disease? If they haven't, why haven't they?

Covid has found the weakest, most vulnerable people but there will always be exceptions to that and it's a shame that some younger, so called healthy people, have died from it. That will always happen. They must have had an inherent weakness which was attacked by this virus.

It will go on killing people. After nearly 2 months of vaccinations, the deaths keep rising. What is the average age of those who have died since December?

Thanks again for the replies. I appreciate them. More later, you'll be glad to know! :o)

[ToraToraTora]

right oh! You're not an MP are you?
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-michael-gove-says-tory-mp-out-of-order-to-tell-anti-vaxxers-to-persist-against-restrictions-12201020

[10ClarionSt]

It's not the disease that worries me, it really isn't. It's peoples' attitude that is more concerning. Also, there appears to be lots of "experts" on here who have some kind of premonition about how bad it "would" have been. What? Because it makes sense? if it aint bad now, what's the Bojo the Clown apologising for? I bet she put him up to that. I just bet she did! :o)

[bobbinwales]

Bear in mind the people dying this month mainly caught it in December before any vaccs had time to take effect (2-3 weeks)

[ToraToraTora]

you can't reason with an idiot.

[10ClarionSt]

Morning, TTT. :o) You shouldn't post about Bobibnwales like that. Not very nice!

[jim360]

You're welcome to suggest abandoning any efforts to control the spread of the virus. It's not difficult to see how that will likely turn out -- just pay actual attention to the data, rather than a blatant misinterpretation of it.

[jim360]

As a further point, there is nothing more arrogant than in assuming you know better than medical and scientific experts across the world, or more arrogant than in refusing to change your position in light of the data. Nobody deserves insults directed at them personally, but to be clear, your opinion is still utterly wrong and baseless.

[ToraToraTora]

10cs: All you've done is spout the same unfounded drivel. You've ignored any attempt at reason. What do you think is happening here? Are the tearful exhausted medics just making it up in your eyes? Are the beds full of dying people just malingering? Do you not accept that if we'd done nothing it would be worse? I just don't get what's is going on in the area between your ears.

[jim360]

As to the efficacy of the vaccine, I'm not sure I have seen any data on it recently, but clinical trials suggested that it was 90% effective, or in or above that region, in most cases (increasing with a second dose). I would expect a similar efficacy to be seen across the larger population, but the sad truth is that we will have to wait a few weeks in order to see this effect, or indeed its absence.

It shouldn't be controversial that having no response whatsoever, or having no vaccine whatsoever, would have led to a crisis an order of magnitude worse in every sense: in terms of the total number of Covid-related deaths; in terms of those who got ill, recovered, but are suffering long-term consequences of the illness; in terms of the medical services in this country and in many others being stretched to breaking point leading to even greater shortages in care for other diseases. The irony of this post, too, is that Johnson has repeatedly tried the 10CS approach -- in March last year he refused to act for at least two weeks after being warned that a full lockdown was necessary; in September and October he refused to introduce any kind of control measures, that back then may have been needed for a couple of weeks but ended up lasting a full month in November; in December he refused to introduce lockdown because of an obsession about saving Christmas. On each occasion, the delay has cost lives. Far from being Canute, Johnson has been Aethelred, never ready to take decisive action* when it was needed, and only when he was forced into it.

*Yes, I know "Unready" in this context means "badly-advised", but in this case Johnson got the best advice possible in the circumstances but kept dithering, so I'm using the modern meaning of Unready.

[ToraToraTora]

Perhaps if you catch it yourself you'll have a different perspective.

[10ClarionSt]

Thanks for those replies, especially jim360. I am not in denial or believing in any conspiracies. After all the expert advice that the PM received, was lockdown the only option? PHE have said that 95% of deaths are people who suffered from one, or a combination of, heart disease, dementia or Type 1 diabetes. That is a tiny minority of the population.

Instead of paying people to stay at home, handing out business grants and buying laptops for schools, all of that money should have been channelled into the NHS and the areas where people are most vulnerable. A concerted effort can still be made towards that. Lockdown should be scrapped and people allowed back to work; schools to open; cafes, pubs, restuarants and bars should be allowed to open, whilst advice, rules and guidelines still remain in place but not by law, except the law about facemasks.

However, I don't believe that facemasks offer any protection at all because the death rate fell dramatically during the first lockdown, when facemasks weren't compulsory.

You are correct. I am not an expert in any way, or a politician. But that doesn't mean that my thoughts, and expressing them, makes me an idiot or anything of the sort.
But I have come to expect that kind of sentiment on here from the "Frank Doberman" of AB, ie, Tora Tora Tora, the man with a terrorist code word for a screen name.

Thanks again for the replies. I always appreciate them. All of them. Whatever is said.