Populist Parties - Dangerous To Health?

[vetuste_ennemi]

BBC news. Re Italian election. Italian analyst describing "populism" as contagious.

How did the Italian voters catch this disease? Where did it come from? Rats? Fleas on rats?

What can we do about this contagion? Quarantine?

[Buenchico]

It needs to be remembered though that Italian 'populism' is different to anywhere else. Only in Italy could a 'populist' government be led by a group of unelected university professors ;-)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/03/populist-answer-to-italian-woes-more-teechnocrats

[vetuste_ennemi]

Did or did not the coalition parties (Liga 5Star or whatever they're called ) win the election by popular mandate, Chico?

[vetuste_ennemi]

I do, though, understand that Merkel, the international markets and Buenchico may disagree with their choice.

[Buenchico]

Politicians all over the world (including here in the UK) often win elections by promising things that sound wonderful but are hard (or impossible) to deliver when it comes to getting the sums to add up.

I've got friends in Italy (one of whom, coincidentally, is a university professor) and even they seem to struggle to make sense of Italian politics.

[vetuste_ennemi]

And under the moral principle "we who know better will save you, the deplorables, from the consequences of your ill-advised choices" I'm sure that the decision of the Italian electorate will be adjusted.

As will Brexit.

[vetuste_ennemi]

//I've got friends in Italy (one of whom, coincidentally, is a university professor) and even they seem to struggle to make sense of Italian politics//

There's a corollary here, Chico. Read the Republic?

Have you read The Open Society and its Enemies?

Argue for or against, innit.

[Buenchico]

>>> I do, though, understand that Merkel, the international markets and Buenchico may disagree with their choice

I neither agree nor disagree because Italian politics largely leaves me baffled. I admire Silvio Berlusconi as a person, rather than because of his political views. (Interestingly, almost all profiles of him describe his politics as 'populist' but the man himself doesn't exactly seem to fit into the mould of being against anti-elite!)

[Buenchico]

>>> Read the Republic?

Assuming that you're referring to Plato, then I've read it several times (and also protested to Suffolk Libraries Service that there's not a single copy of such an important work available for loan anywhere in the county).

As with any works of philosophy (and particularly political philosophy) I find myself questioning the axioms which underline it. (I'm a nihilist at heart; give me Nietzsche over Plato any day!)

[vetuste_ennemi]

The truth is mighty and will prevail.

If the popular (lumpenproletariat?) will has elected a government on unrealisable aspirations then that will be exposed.

But is getting out of the Euro necessarily[i a bad thing for Italy? Is it possible that halting the import of hundreds of thousands of unskilled third world men might be a [i]good] thing?

[Buenchico]

>>> The truth is mighty and will prevail

Your quote from Mark Twain appears to have the important bit missing:
"Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing wrong with this, except that it ain't so"

;-)

[vetuste_ennemi]

Given the two authors I was comparing, Chico, do you understand the axioms which Plato constituted good ("virtuous") governance and Popper's objections to them?

[vetuste_ennemi]

By the way, it's only recently that democracy has become a "good thing". The Founding Fathers and most Victorian Brits were highly suspicious of it.

Goes back to Aristotle, doesn't it, who contrasted possible political regimes in their better and worse forms. E.g. king (good) v tyrant(bad), aristocrats (noblesse oblige) v oligarchs and popular agreement through discussion (polity) v democracy (demagogues).

[Buenchico]

It's getting late, V_E, and Plato and Sauvignon Blanc don't make good bedfellows, so I'm going to catch up on some sleep now.

However I strongly believe that the concept of democracy is one of the worst things ever inflicted upon mankind. I'm totally opposed to it. Plato advocated noocracy. I might modify that slightly to geniocracy (or even technocracy) but democracy is a total disaster.

Goodnight!

[vetuste_ennemi]

Goodnight, Chico.

[Old_Geezer]

populism/ˈpɒpjʊlɪz(ə)m/ noun support for the concerns of ordinary people.

Oh another word for democracy. Yes a very dangerous contagious disease. Need to nip that in the bud before voters start to think their representatives should be representing their views.

[Deskdiary]

Very impressed you're able to debate philosophy so late into the night (morning - I was out walking the dog 40 minutes after you retired) while drinking.

I did philosophy at A Level and struggled with it then, and remember next to nothing now, but after a drink the best I can do on a keyboard is watch music videos on You Tube!

[Old_Geezer]

Ah, I'd have liked philosophy to have been taught at my school but it never was.

And politics gets one hot under the collar due to idiotic decisions made by those who are naturally interested in it as a subject and who opt to turn their interest/hobby into a career, so having not studied that either I have to use google look up definitions in the discussion.

Seems that descriptions used here don't seem mutually exclusive. Intelligent arguments based on all sorts of things get put to the public, who then decide which is the best way forward.

Until technology allows every major direction change to be a referendum, the least representatives could do would be to canvas prevailing opinion, then debate the issue, and explain why they voted the way they did after to those they are supposed to represent.