ChatterBank1 min ago
Question For The Religious Fundementalists
131 Answers
Would you still love God if you knew he was going to damn you to eternal torment? After all you assert that we are all born sinners and worthy of hell because God is 'righteous' and that's what we deserve.
Seems to me that the religious, for all their talk of loving God, are only loving God because they are afraid of NOT doing so.
Not been flippant here, I'm genuinely interested in why you would want to worship an entity that would torture you for an eternity if you DIDNT love him.
Thanks :-)
Seems to me that the religious, for all their talk of loving God, are only loving God because they are afraid of NOT doing so.
Not been flippant here, I'm genuinely interested in why you would want to worship an entity that would torture you for an eternity if you DIDNT love him.
Thanks :-)
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Naomi, when I was a Christian, over 30 years ago, I knew many, many people that all professed their 'love' for God/jesus. 3 decades later and many of those people have left Christianity and have told me that the reason they were Christians (and stayed in the religion for so many years) was because they were afraid of hell.
ALL religion is based on fear.
Theland, you exort us to 'save ourselves'. If your Bible God is love, then we wouldn't really have to would we? And its ridiculous to say we have a choice to burn in hell or go to heaven. That's not a choice, that is an ultimatum. Love God or he will punish you? Seriously?
ALL religion is based on fear.
Theland, you exort us to 'save ourselves'. If your Bible God is love, then we wouldn't really have to would we? And its ridiculous to say we have a choice to burn in hell or go to heaven. That's not a choice, that is an ultimatum. Love God or he will punish you? Seriously?
Many years ago Naomi posted a link to this text that compare the "love" of God with an abusive relationship. Probably one of the best analytical pieces ever written about religion.
Seems appropriate on this thread.
http://
Seems appropriate on this thread.
http://
I love God, not out of fear, but out of gratitude. He created life and all things in this universe. I have studied the Bible and cannot find any where that he tortures man for eternity. In fact, Christians did not adopt the teaching of hell fire until the 2nd century.
In the 16th century people like Martin Luther and John Calvin understood that fiery torment was actually figurative. However in the 18th century this teaching reared its ugly head again when Protestant Preacher Jonathan Edwards used it to strike fear into the hearts American Colonials.
Long suffering Job did not have the scriptures but he believed in the resurrection (see Job 14 v 13-15).
God does not punish people in Hell.
The word hell is found in many Bible translations , in the same verses in other translations the same word is read as "grave", "the world of the dead", and so on. The Hebrew word Sheol and Greek word Hades, refers to the common grave of mankind.
The scriptures refer to God as Love. It does not just refer to one of his many qualities, but that he IS love. (1 John 4 v 8.)
His greatest expression of love is that he allowed his only begotten son Jesus Christ to die as a ransom for mankind. This allows man to come into a relationship with God.
I know many on this site will scoff and ridicule, but that is to be expected. Also this is prophesied in the scriptures. Some may even say they have studied the Bible (which I don't doubt) but there is study and study.
Anyone who says to me "You don't love God, you're really terrified of the hereafter". My response is: "I have no fear of the hereafter. If during my lifetime I do displease God (which I probably will as i am not perfect) I know that through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, I can approach God with freeness of speech and ask for forgiveness on that basis.
Does anyone else here say that?
In the 16th century people like Martin Luther and John Calvin understood that fiery torment was actually figurative. However in the 18th century this teaching reared its ugly head again when Protestant Preacher Jonathan Edwards used it to strike fear into the hearts American Colonials.
Long suffering Job did not have the scriptures but he believed in the resurrection (see Job 14 v 13-15).
God does not punish people in Hell.
The word hell is found in many Bible translations , in the same verses in other translations the same word is read as "grave", "the world of the dead", and so on. The Hebrew word Sheol and Greek word Hades, refers to the common grave of mankind.
The scriptures refer to God as Love. It does not just refer to one of his many qualities, but that he IS love. (1 John 4 v 8.)
His greatest expression of love is that he allowed his only begotten son Jesus Christ to die as a ransom for mankind. This allows man to come into a relationship with God.
I know many on this site will scoff and ridicule, but that is to be expected. Also this is prophesied in the scriptures. Some may even say they have studied the Bible (which I don't doubt) but there is study and study.
Anyone who says to me "You don't love God, you're really terrified of the hereafter". My response is: "I have no fear of the hereafter. If during my lifetime I do displease God (which I probably will as i am not perfect) I know that through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, I can approach God with freeness of speech and ask for forgiveness on that basis.
Does anyone else here say that?
idiosyncrasy, //…. there is study and study.//
I agree. You study with pre-conceived notions and look for what you want to see. I don’t do that. I read what’s really there.
//Long suffering Job…//
You say that God is love and then curiously you mention Job. The less you say about his suffering and the cause of it the better ….. don’t you think?
I agree. You study with pre-conceived notions and look for what you want to see. I don’t do that. I read what’s really there.
//Long suffering Job…//
You say that God is love and then curiously you mention Job. The less you say about his suffering and the cause of it the better ….. don’t you think?
idiosyncracy //I know that through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, I can approach God with freeness of speech and ask for forgiveness on that basis. //
It is a sick god that demands ransom sacrifice of an innocent to atone for the wrongs of others. Truly a sociopath and psychopath.
Please read this link about the true nature of "God's love":
http://
It includes an explanation of the "Stockholm Syndrome" that the lovers of such a monster are experiencing.
It is a sick god that demands ransom sacrifice of an innocent to atone for the wrongs of others. Truly a sociopath and psychopath.
Please read this link about the true nature of "God's love":
http://
It includes an explanation of the "Stockholm Syndrome" that the lovers of such a monster are experiencing.
Naomi@ The suffering of Job was not from god. It was from satan. (read Job 1 v 8) He allowed Satan to torment Job because Satan claimed God protected Job. However, he was not allowed to take Job's life. The purpose of this was to prove to Satan, that unlike Adam and Eve, there were humans who would serve him out of love and regardless of their situation.
Beso@ I feel so sorry for you that you feel God is a monster. You nit pick but don't see the principle. Just like the religious leaders of Jesus' day.
Nailitt@ I can understand why many left the churches. Look at their record. Quite true they are hypocritical, their philosophy is "do what I say not what I do". I left organised religion. I do not agree with what they do and say. Their interference in politics is something that Jesus Christ did not do. But for the moment this is what we have to live with. However, the day will come when God will say "No more". Just as Noah preached for 4 decades and no one listened, so it is today. The majority of mankind does not listen to the Word of God, the Bible. If more people obeyed there would not be the problems we have in the world today.
Beso@ I feel so sorry for you that you feel God is a monster. You nit pick but don't see the principle. Just like the religious leaders of Jesus' day.
Nailitt@ I can understand why many left the churches. Look at their record. Quite true they are hypocritical, their philosophy is "do what I say not what I do". I left organised religion. I do not agree with what they do and say. Their interference in politics is something that Jesus Christ did not do. But for the moment this is what we have to live with. However, the day will come when God will say "No more". Just as Noah preached for 4 decades and no one listened, so it is today. The majority of mankind does not listen to the Word of God, the Bible. If more people obeyed there would not be the problems we have in the world today.
One thing that put me off religion is that apparently you can spend your entire life committing the most appalling sins/crimes yet gain salvation instantly by just praying for forgiveness, before you die.
That is not something I can accept. Yes, people can and do change, but they must accept responsibility for their past mistakes .
Voltaire comes to mind here. Throughout his life he refused to accept the concept of a God, On his deathbed he was asked by a priest to at least renounce the Devil. His reply ''This is no time to be making enemies''
That is not something I can accept. Yes, people can and do change, but they must accept responsibility for their past mistakes .
Voltaire comes to mind here. Throughout his life he refused to accept the concept of a God, On his deathbed he was asked by a priest to at least renounce the Devil. His reply ''This is no time to be making enemies''
idiosyncracy //Beso@ I feel so sorry for you that you feel God is a monster. You nit pick but don't see the principle. //
The evidence that your god is a monster is quite plain. The principles exposed by the Bible are profoundly sick. Here are just a few.
All women to be punished eternally by increased pain in childbirth for Eve's transgression.
Children will be punished through to the fourth generation for the sins of their ancestors.
Advice to arrange for a gang to kill your children if they are disobedient. (Tell the gang that you son is a drunkard.)
A woman is only worth half a man. No woman or child could ever enter the room where the Arc of the Covenant had once spent the night.
Women of the conquered tribes were to become the sex slaves of the conquerors.
Lot was an example of a great man despite offering his daughters to a rapist gang, then when they turned them down, he gave them his housekeeper who was raped for hours until she died.
The genocidal massacre of more than thirty tribes who lived in the lands invaded by the Hebrews. Enslavement of the two tribes who had heard of the massacres and sent envoys to broker peace before the Hebrews arrived. The Hebrews were then punished by God for failing to slaughter them.
Instruction to the Hebrews to slice up pregnant women's bellies and kill the baby in front of them and the father to increase their suffering. Other children were to have their heads smashed against rocks in front of their parents.
A promise to ultimately kill everyone who does not bow down to his fascist dictatorship.
I don't "nit pick". There are huge flaws in the so called "moral guidance" of the Bible. You and your kind simply refuse to acknowledge them.
I feel sorry for you that you could be so duped into what you choose to believe. Go and actually read what is in the book instead of what you want to believe is in there.
The evidence that your god is a monster is quite plain. The principles exposed by the Bible are profoundly sick. Here are just a few.
All women to be punished eternally by increased pain in childbirth for Eve's transgression.
Children will be punished through to the fourth generation for the sins of their ancestors.
Advice to arrange for a gang to kill your children if they are disobedient. (Tell the gang that you son is a drunkard.)
A woman is only worth half a man. No woman or child could ever enter the room where the Arc of the Covenant had once spent the night.
Women of the conquered tribes were to become the sex slaves of the conquerors.
Lot was an example of a great man despite offering his daughters to a rapist gang, then when they turned them down, he gave them his housekeeper who was raped for hours until she died.
The genocidal massacre of more than thirty tribes who lived in the lands invaded by the Hebrews. Enslavement of the two tribes who had heard of the massacres and sent envoys to broker peace before the Hebrews arrived. The Hebrews were then punished by God for failing to slaughter them.
Instruction to the Hebrews to slice up pregnant women's bellies and kill the baby in front of them and the father to increase their suffering. Other children were to have their heads smashed against rocks in front of their parents.
A promise to ultimately kill everyone who does not bow down to his fascist dictatorship.
I don't "nit pick". There are huge flaws in the so called "moral guidance" of the Bible. You and your kind simply refuse to acknowledge them.
I feel sorry for you that you could be so duped into what you choose to believe. Go and actually read what is in the book instead of what you want to believe is in there.
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