Trouble Ahead In Barcelona

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41678086

This could get very nasty....I would't be planning any trips over there at the moment IMHO.

[Old_Geezer]

Probably nostalgic for a civil war.

[mikey4444]

Personally, I think the Catalan Government needs to stop ans take stock here....this is madness.

[Gromit]

I think you posted that sentiment before. It was rubbish then, and it is rubbish now.
I would happily go to Barcelona now, just as I have holidayed in Turkey twice this year, despite peoplei shouldn't.

[Gromit]

* despite people saying I shouldn't. *

[mikey4444]

If Civil War does break out in Barcelona, than I wouldn't want to be there !

[Gromit]

It won't.
It is in no ones interest, and no one wants that.

[jno]

I'd go there tomorrow. Stop fretting, mikey, the world isn't on the brink of war.

[ichkeria]

A friend of ours is going next week. He isn't particularly bothered. He is a man of the cloth and so has the man upstairs on his side :-)
I don't see any appetite there for violent confrontation although the Catalan PM seems hell bent on causing uncertainty, which has already caused problems for the Catalan economy.
There is absolutely no way Catalonia is going to break away from Spain. Quite what Mr Puigdemont is playing at I am not sure, but he should resign and allow sensible politicians to be elected to power.

[mikey4444]

Itchy....I seem to recall that there was plenty of "violent confrontation" there recently !

[Bazile]

I nearly caused an international incident in Barcelona , last time I was there .

I had the temerity to suggest that the reason the Sagrada Família was still not completed , was because if it was , then the tourist visitors would drastically fall in numbers .

From the look the guy gave me , i recall , he was not impressed by my assertion

[Vulcanite10]

Madrid has now activated clause 155, which suspends the autonomous Catalan Parliament. Madrid appointees will be put in place and will seek to have a new Catalan president elected.

[jim360]

I'm sure the situation *could* get very explosive, but I doubt it *will*. Catalonia can try to declare independence but can hardly seek to enforce it.

[scooping]

Not sure I quite get the problem. Thought most reasonable people believed in self-determination.

[NoMercy]

On the basis that there was a major terrorist attack there recently I wouldn't want to be there right now but I'm pretty sure there's no imminent threat of civil conflict.

Looking at some of the banners being waved on the streets of Catalonia this morning, there are many who do not want independence.

[ichkeria]

Mikey the violence before was caused by the irrestible force of the Spanish police meeting the immoveable force of the referendum. Since then the Catalan PM has signed the independence declaration but put it on hold, and everyone is a little confused at exactly what he wants.
My suspicion is he's looking for a climbdown or way out, because presumably he realises that Catalonia would do very badly out of independence. They may be the wealthies part of Spain, but they benefit from subsidies also from the Spanish government, they would have to come to some arrangement over the Eurozone, as they would no longer be in the EU (which most Catalans support). Basically the real motivation for Catalan independence is largely sentimental and idealistic 9and in someways unpleasantly nationalistic and divisive) There is no sense of a wrong being righted. So it simply won't happen.

[jourdain2]

NoM, that's the trouble, many who want independence vs many who don't. That's why it could get very nasty. I am wondering about the Basques. They have renounced violence, but still aim for independence. The Catalonia situation may point out to them that they have no chance of a negotiated independence. The Basques have many hidden arms. I'm willing to bet that they are taking a very keen interest.

[DTCwordfan]

including separation from France...

[ethandron]

We have family in Barcelona and they tell us they've seen little or nothing of any trouble. We're going over in a few weeks and this won't stop us, in the same way any trouble in London wouldn't stop us going there.

[New Judge]

"They may be the wealthies part of Spain, but they benefit from subsidies also from the Spanish government,"

Where does the cash for these subsidies originate? Is it the same place that the "subsidies" that the UK receives from the EU come from?

Catalonia accounts for 20% of Spain's tax revenue but only receives 70% of what it raises back to run its public services. Quite how that equates to "subsidies" is a little mysterious. The region has an economy about as large as that of Denmark and would probably fare quite well as an independent nation - certainly better than Scotland.

[ichkeria]

Catalan independence is simply a non-starter. For all sorts of reasons. The main one is, actually, the fact that the country is split on an issue which is, as I said largely, one based on sentiment and the vague idea that because it's the wealthies part of Spain, that it is hard done by and could get by on its own, ignoring all the grief that would ensue after UDI. It would make Brexit look like a picnic. They'd never get back in the EU for a start, as Spain would almost certainly veto their membership.The only remote possibility of trouble would be mismanagement of the situation by the Spanish government. That doesn't look very likely, despite what happened at the referendum, or maybe because of it.