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Why Did Remain Only Use Project Fear In Their Campagn?
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Jonathan Lynn says the primary function of the EU etc was to prevent war, that may be the case but he's also right about one other thing: "He added: “I think the campaign was meaningless. Nobody on the Remain side talked about the real purpose of the EU in its origins, which was to prevent war." - remain battered us with project fear, day after day. I never heard any positive campaigning at all, no one told me about the positive reasons to stay, no one sold it. Is that were remain went wrong?
Jonathan Lynn says the primary function of the EU etc was to prevent war, that may be the case but he's also right about one other thing: "He added: “I think the campaign was meaningless. Nobody on the Remain side talked about the real purpose of the EU in its origins, which was to prevent war." - remain battered us with project fear, day after day. I never heard any positive campaigning at all, no one told me about the positive reasons to stay, no one sold it. Is that were remain went wrong?
Answers
From a Brexit point of view collaborativ
15:09 Fri 13th Oct 2017
Have you stopped beating YOUR wife?
Jonathan Lynn was wrong to say that the original idea of the EU (to prevent war) was not mentioned. It was. And it was immediately spun as "Remainers say leaving the EU will lead to World War 3".
So then he is right again to say the campaign was meaningless, but that is what almost inevitably happens in referendum campaigns. The lowest common denominator soon kicks in
Jonathan Lynn was wrong to say that the original idea of the EU (to prevent war) was not mentioned. It was. And it was immediately spun as "Remainers say leaving the EU will lead to World War 3".
So then he is right again to say the campaign was meaningless, but that is what almost inevitably happens in referendum campaigns. The lowest common denominator soon kicks in
mikey:" TTT....There was just the same amount of black propaganda used by the BREXIT camp before the Referendum, and they still doing it now. Just under half the people that voted, voted to remain, millions of them, but they are ignored by the BREXIT camp and told that they are just moaning. " - that's because most of them want it to go wrong so they can have a na na nana na told you so, moment. Pitch in, we are all on the same side.
From a Brexit point of view collaborative working projects such as science that Jim mentions was not a particular issue.
If the bodies that currently collaborate want to collaborate in the after Brexit future they will.
If all these different aspects of working together in whatever form just suddenly stop it means someone, somewhere has not done their job.
If it is because the EU have been so arrogant that they want to (however they do manage it) punish us as a show of strength (to us or other EU nations etc) then that will eventually come out in the wash. There must come a point when we stop being nice and act as their negotiators do.
If it is because the companies themselves have done nothing to continue then more fool them.
If the bodies that currently collaborate want to collaborate in the after Brexit future they will.
If all these different aspects of working together in whatever form just suddenly stop it means someone, somewhere has not done their job.
If it is because the EU have been so arrogant that they want to (however they do manage it) punish us as a show of strength (to us or other EU nations etc) then that will eventually come out in the wash. There must come a point when we stop being nice and act as their negotiators do.
If it is because the companies themselves have done nothing to continue then more fool them.
"From a Brexit point of view collaborative working projects such as science that Jim mentions was not a particular issue.
If the bodies that currently collaborate want to collaborate in the after Brexit future they will.
If all these different aspects of working together in whatever form just suddenly stop it means someone, somewhere has not done their job. "
That's cool and all, but it overlooks the impact that, in particular, loss of specific EU funding and loss of freedom of movement could bring (I say could, rather than will, because this was always couched in uncertainty). At any rate, the almost universal opinion of UK scientists was that EU membership was beneficial for Science, and while that is clearly at least partly self-serving it also counts as a positive case for remaining.
If you disagree with it, of course, then that's another matter.
If the bodies that currently collaborate want to collaborate in the after Brexit future they will.
If all these different aspects of working together in whatever form just suddenly stop it means someone, somewhere has not done their job. "
That's cool and all, but it overlooks the impact that, in particular, loss of specific EU funding and loss of freedom of movement could bring (I say could, rather than will, because this was always couched in uncertainty). At any rate, the almost universal opinion of UK scientists was that EU membership was beneficial for Science, and while that is clearly at least partly self-serving it also counts as a positive case for remaining.
If you disagree with it, of course, then that's another matter.
Jim ,
'the someone somewhere hasn't done their job properly' includes making sure work/travel documents are in place.
I don't know how the funding is handled so can only go on a common sense approach. Is our monetary contribution key to the project/s via our own contributions from the EU? (That bits a bit long winded but it is plain in m head lol)
Are these projects only open to EU member states or EU populace?
I understand that some sentiment may well be self serving but as you say some of it is a real worry for these people. That's why I say someone somewhere should be working on it.
There will inevitably be losers and one can but hope they are in the minority. But there are companies and institutions all over the world clamouring and fighting to get projects. Perhaps they, we, everyone should get back into that mindset of nothing pops up ready made.
'the someone somewhere hasn't done their job properly' includes making sure work/travel documents are in place.
I don't know how the funding is handled so can only go on a common sense approach. Is our monetary contribution key to the project/s via our own contributions from the EU? (That bits a bit long winded but it is plain in m head lol)
Are these projects only open to EU member states or EU populace?
I understand that some sentiment may well be self serving but as you say some of it is a real worry for these people. That's why I say someone somewhere should be working on it.
There will inevitably be losers and one can but hope they are in the minority. But there are companies and institutions all over the world clamouring and fighting to get projects. Perhaps they, we, everyone should get back into that mindset of nothing pops up ready made.
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