Who Believes

[-Talbot-]

We keep hearing from all directions that 'Yes the Union isn't perfect and needs reforming'


Who believes
Dave, Jez and the rest when they say they will fight for a reformed Europe from within?

[Jackdaw33]

Why not? The 'short and curlies' is not gender restricted.

[Quizmonster]

In my experience, Jackdaw, the reference is not to the short and curlies, but to things that very specifically ARE gender specific, which was why I made the comment I did, assuming Naomi not to be hermaphroditic!

[Old_Geezer]

If it could have been reformed from within it wouldn't be in the state it is now. How can you reform anything when those in charge are not answerable to the public ? It needs "retiring" and something useful (and democratic and not imposing on a country's right to say "no") suggested to take it's place.

[naomi24]

Quizmonster, whatever they'll have us by, they'll have us.

[Old_Geezer]

"Well they definitely can't change it from the outside !"

Strange. As I see it leaving is already a change. They are one sucker nation fewer. Plus I'm sure we've discussed whether a domino effect might occur leaving Germany to fund their baby, and all the net receivers of finance, and house all the economic immigrants. Were that to happen it would be a large change too.

And then there is the need to continue trade on a basis beneficial to them since the EU sells more to us than we do to them, so when we tell them what they can do with any demand for free movement of people just to join the trade related single market, that's another possible change from outside when they decide not to cut off their nose to spite their face. (And they'd better decide quickly or lose the opportunity as trade agreements are made elsewhere in the world.)

And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there must be many incentives to get their act together if things seem to be falling apart.

[Quizmonster]

I have no quibble with your claim at all, Naomi! Re the phrase in question, perhaps you and Jackdaw have lived rather shorter lives than I have and in more genteel environments. I'm pretty ancient now and half my adult life was spent in military service, where "swearing" is made to count. There, twee phrases such as "short and curlies" would've been laughed out of court!

[Jackdaw33]

...then you should know that 'twee' phrases were only used when officers were present.

[Baldric]

/// 'twee' phrases were only used when officers were present.///

"Whattttt??????"

[Quizmonster]

Actually, I was an officer!

[naomi24]

Quizmonster, just as well the opinions of the self-appointed judges here are irrelevant then. ;o)

[Jackdaw33]

Sheer politeness. I can honestly say that I never heard an officer swear, unlike NCOs. Mind you, I was not an officer so can't can't speak for what was said in the mess.

[-Talbot-]

Congratulations quizmonster, we're all honoured by your presence I'm sure ... but what has any of your posts got to do with the question posed?

[Quizmonster]

Talbot, if you look at my first response at 16.55, you will see that it referred directly to the language in Naomi's comment at 16.41.
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the common practice here on AB of commenting on others' contributions as well as the question posted. Indeed, you can see that several others on this very thread responded to ME, which opened the way for me to reply to THEM, too.
Basically, we are free to write whatever we like...within reason...and that's what I did. I regret the fact that you seem to disapprove, but that's life!

[-Talbot-]

What on earth are you going on about Q/monster?

Any chance of addressing the Q, QM?

[jourdain2]

Well, no one has made any impact on the monolithic EU so far. If we vote to remain they will tuck us away under their wing and ignore our squawks. Dave and co. will make a few noises on the 'Bread and Circuses' principle. We will be ground into the dust and Napoleon will have prevailed.

[Quizmonster]

"Any chance of addressing the Q, QM?"
As I've already pointed out, T, it is not compulsory to address any AnswerBank question. One is perfectly free merely to comment on the answers provided by others, should one so wish.
But, if it'll make you happy, I believe the concept of "reform from within" is a fine one in theory, but theory ain't practice!

[New Judge]

Yes I think we’re in agreement, QM. (NJ retires for a lie down!)

Reform from within is all very well providing those in control of the “within” are open to reform. This clearly is not and never will be the case with the Euromaniacs.

However, there is another option where “Reform from without” might be secured. When the PM began his “renegotiation” he should have opened by saying that the UK will be leaving forthwith. (It is my belief it should have been adopted without a referendum. No plebiscites were deemed necessary before signing the treaties that led us into this car crash in the first place). If and when the EU reforms to our satisfaction we may consider rejoining. If the EU really wants us as members (and I believe it does) it will concentrate their minds towards designing an institution that acts in the best interests of its members – especially the more senior ones.