ChatterBank2 mins ago
Without Christianity....
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........ would we have western values? Even Richard Dawkins appears to acknowledge this debt. Is his atheistic stance softening? I see him now referred to as an 'agnostic' (as well as a secularist and humanist).
Recently, sitting in Winchester Cathedral listening to the peal of the bells he tweeted; 'So much nicer than the aggressive-sounding "Allahu Akhbar", or is that just my cultural upbringing?'
Does this not show him as someone brought up in a Christian civilization which he can not eschew, and if he, the guru of several ABers cannot, can they?
Recently, sitting in Winchester Cathedral listening to the peal of the bells he tweeted; 'So much nicer than the aggressive-sounding "Allahu Akhbar", or is that just my cultural upbringing?'
Does this not show him as someone brought up in a Christian civilization which he can not eschew, and if he, the guru of several ABers cannot, can they?
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PP, //"a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God."//
… which does not equate to ‘doesn’t know’. Still, having put your foot in it yet again, well done for taking the time to resort to your old friend google. A quick read through previous posts, mine in particular, would have saved you the trouble though.
//I know you dont do ancient forrin//
No … you don’t.
… which does not equate to ‘doesn’t know’. Still, having put your foot in it yet again, well done for taking the time to resort to your old friend google. A quick read through previous posts, mine in particular, would have saved you the trouble though.
//I know you dont do ancient forrin//
No … you don’t.
Peter Pedant, perhaps you missed the fact that I put the word 'song'...look, I've done it again!...in inverted commas! This is a literary convention to indicate that the writer may well not be using the usual strict interpretation of the word.
In other words, I don't care what word "[i[they[i]" use for the azan, I consider it to be a set of words set to music which fits MY definition of a song!
In other words, I don't care what word "[i[they[i]" use for the azan, I consider it to be a set of words set to music which fits MY definition of a song!
Khandro, perhaps we might consider the words, "Allahu akbar", to be aggressive simply because we mainly hear them in fighting circumstances shown in news broadcasts and the like. That is, a situation in which the person using them is deliberately being aggressive. They do not sound even remotely aggressive in the azan. Try listening to it.
Khandro, I have nothing I need to "take up" with Dawkins. He and I are largely in agreement as regards religion.
Your own OP, on the other hand, refers to cathedral bells and the sounding of such bells is most frequently a call to prayer, precisely as the azan is in mosques.
As a result, you cannot really dismiss - other than disingenuously - the idea that you yourself introduced the concept of "calls to prayer" to this thread!
Your own OP, on the other hand, refers to cathedral bells and the sounding of such bells is most frequently a call to prayer, precisely as the azan is in mosques.
As a result, you cannot really dismiss - other than disingenuously - the idea that you yourself introduced the concept of "calls to prayer" to this thread!
Khandro, responses to a thread do not have to be confined to the concept presented in the OP itself. After the very first reply, further contributions may quite freely be devoted to answering that or any later response. In other words, threads may very well develop in ways which the original poster never dreamt of.
And church bells simply are, more often than not, calls to prayer, whether you like it or not!
And church bells simply are, more often than not, calls to prayer, whether you like it or not!
QM. // church bells simply are, more often than not, calls to prayer, whether you like it or not!
//
Yes, I quite like it - my house is 50 metres from the village church- but more to the point, Richard Dawkins likes it too, and in preference to what he calls, "Allahu Akhbar". So maybe he's beginning to see there is a flip side to the anti-religious narrative he's been peddling.
I don't think he wanted it to go quite as far as the recent arrest of an elderly African street-preacher in London for 'breach of peace' - his cry of "Don't take my bible" as a pair of strapping plods handcuffed him was heart-rending, as was the British Governments refusal to give sanctuary to Asia Bibi living under death threats, lest it upset certain Christian-hating 'communities', whose sensibilities must be protected at all costs.
//
Yes, I quite like it - my house is 50 metres from the village church- but more to the point, Richard Dawkins likes it too, and in preference to what he calls, "Allahu Akhbar". So maybe he's beginning to see there is a flip side to the anti-religious narrative he's been peddling.
I don't think he wanted it to go quite as far as the recent arrest of an elderly African street-preacher in London for 'breach of peace' - his cry of "Don't take my bible" as a pair of strapping plods handcuffed him was heart-rending, as was the British Governments refusal to give sanctuary to Asia Bibi living under death threats, lest it upset certain Christian-hating 'communities', whose sensibilities must be protected at all costs.
Me too, hereiam. My sister and I have literally just now been shown round a local church that is over 1000 years old, with original paintings inside. The history is interesting, more than the religion.
Naomi is right, pp. "Atheism" means "without a God." Not "a belief in no God" (although I have that too until proof arrives). They are not the same thing
Naomi is right, pp. "Atheism" means "without a God." Not "a belief in no God" (although I have that too until proof arrives). They are not the same thing
Khandro, I have no idea what the actions of the Metropolitan Police or the British government have to do with Dawkins' religiosity having a possible "flip-side".
However, I'd say you'll need a vast amount of further information if you're to persuade anyone of your theory.
An atheist myself, as already explained in this thread, I love organ music, church bell-ringing, King's College Chapel choir, various classical requiem masses, the Hallelujah Chorus and a host of other such religion-based delights.
None of them, however, has ever even slightly shaken my atheism and I very much doubt that church bells have had any such influence on Dawkins either.
However, I'd say you'll need a vast amount of further information if you're to persuade anyone of your theory.
An atheist myself, as already explained in this thread, I love organ music, church bell-ringing, King's College Chapel choir, various classical requiem masses, the Hallelujah Chorus and a host of other such religion-based delights.
None of them, however, has ever even slightly shaken my atheism and I very much doubt that church bells have had any such influence on Dawkins either.
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