F A O Theland. Why I Dont Believe

[nailit]

In the Christian God.
Theland, you are always extorting ABers to 'look it up' with regards to the Bible and Christianity. And you seem to have a distorted view of non-believers. I would ask YOU to consider why people (like me) reject the Bible.
As a teenager, I became an evangelical Christian, of the born again variety. In my early 20's I seriously began to question my faith. I was an avid reader and read everything that I could get my hands on regard the Bible, apologetics, church history, Biblical archaeology, Bible commentaries etc. However over time I had to accept that my faith was based on nothing except a bunch of ancient, contradictory manuscripts. I questioned what was been preached from the pulpit. Hell, I questioned everything!
I prayed that if the Bible was the word of God that he would show me, unequivocally, that it was. He didn't. I left.
I am not a non believer because I want to sin
I am not a non believer because I'm in rebellion
I am not a non believer because Ive had bad experiences of church
I am not a non believer because I choose to be
I am a non believer in the Christian God because that's where my questioning led me.
Now at 52, I wonder just how I ever believed such junk as found in the Bible.
The Bible insults my Intelligence, My moral code, My sense of justice.
Do I have all the answers to life's big questions? No. Why would I be so arrogant as to think I did? But because humans know so little, that doesn't mean that we should go running to some ancient manuscripts written by bronze age, desert dwelling goat herders in the middle east thousands of years ago for answers.

Seriously Theland, take a break from You Tube evangelists and open your mind a bit. Question a little. (maybe even try to answer some of the questions put to you by fellow ABers without feeling persecuted)

[naomi24]

Theland, for the umpteenth time atheism isn’t a belief system. When atheists respond to your posts in the main they offer rational reasons for rejecting your deliberations. Bearing in mind that there are thousands of creator Gods (allegedly), what is your rationale for believing in that one rather than any of the others?

Incidentally, I’ve asked you that question before and never received an answer, so I won’t hold my breath this time either.

[tamborine]

My response on Tue 0026 (due to sons illness) was met with “pass the joint” from nailit. So wrong but nailit aint man enuf to apologise for his error!

[237SJ]

Tamborine - how is your son?

[anneasquith]

Not nice tambo., don't fret though .

[Garaman]

I think atheism is more than a lack of belief, hence the 'ism'; it is a firm position taken that there is no god. That is a bit different to the position of someone who lacks belief in the sense that they are unconvinced so don't subscribe to a religion.

[Spungle]

Hi Nailit- I think it's very revealing that you say that you "really didn't want to reject Christianity, it was nice having a faith." Being a follower of Christ is so much more than 'having a faith', it's a daily experience of the goodness of God, allowing Him to reveal Himself through prayer, accepting in faith that Christ died for your sins and is ever-living to intercede for us. I honestly don't know of any real Christians who are living a lonely life, in the depths of drug addiction, tired and desperate, angry against people who are trying to help them, because "they know best".

*BUT* I couldn't continue to believe in my heart what was rejected in my mind after following the evidence." It begs the question what so-called "evidence" you claim to have that Christianity is false, and also seems to be completely illogical to reject something simply on the basis of not being able to understand it. Did it ever occur to you that the human intellect is fundamentally inferior to God's word? Or did you just decide that you knew best? (Respectfully, this could possibly explain the subsequent and ongoing chaos).

"In some ways it was painful even, but I value honesty above everything else and I honestly couldn't continue in a faith that was fundamentally flawed." It must have been painful, but not as painful as it has been for God to witness someone turning away from Him to trust in their own intellect and ability to guide themselves through life. Faith in a Higher Power could be exactly what is needed to overcome the problems which life faces us with.

"Its been suggested in this thread that I might have had a better life if I continued in the faith. Well that's debatable but if I had of done then I would have been living a lie, and I wasn't prepared to do that." Living a lie would be looking at the way your life is working out after rejecting God and concluding your own intellect trumps the Bible! Did you ever ask God for help with your unbelief? If it's your heart and mind that need help, that's exactly what repentance is- a change of mind and a change of heart- God would grant it freely if you were to turn to Him. Best wishes, Nailit, the turmoil of unbelief can be replaced by peace as believing.

[tamborine]

Sj. Son still ill with autoimmune. He is in St Mary’s London (same hossie as latest prince’s birth). Son in wheelchair as legs failed.

Sry to distract OP

[nailit]

Tambo, my response to you of //pass the joint// on Tuesday was meant as a tongue in cheek response to you making out that I knew nothing of despair. It was initially meant to be light hearted not insulting. I knew nothing of what ur son is going through (or indeed what you must be going through). We all have our battles in life and deal with them in different ways. Because my problems are different than yours doesn't make them any less real (or despairing) Your tirade against me was uncalled for (as evidenced by ur post been removed) but given the stress that you must be under, understandable.
Given what I know now, I'm quiet prepared to apologise and sincerely hope that ur son receives the best that medicine can offer.

[nailit]

Spungle, you've written a long post but Ill try and answer some of what you wrote.
First of all, it appears that we are coming from different mind sets. Ive always been questionative/inquisitive so naturally when I became a Christian and started reading the Bible I questioned what I read (not to prove it wrong but to deeper my understanding....I had faith at this time)
It now seems to me that most religionists *DON'T* question but rely solely on faith.

//I honestly don't know of any real Christians who are living a lonely life, in the depths of drug addiction, tired and desperate, angry against people who are trying to help them, because "they know best".//
I dont know any ''real'' muslims, buddhist, mormons etc who are living like that either. Have they all got the truth as well?
Ive got no doubt that having some kind of faith can be beneficial but it doesnt make it true.

//It begs the question what so-called "evidence" you claim to have that Christianity is false//
It was more a case of I couldnt find any evidence that it was true.

//and also seems to be completely illogical to reject something simply on the basis of not being able to understand it//
I understood more than most clerics by the time I rejected it.

//Did it ever occur to you that the human intellect is fundamentally inferior to God's word?//
And whos to say what, exactly, is Gods word? The Koran? The Bhagavad gita? The Vedas?

//Or did you just decide that you knew best?//
I didnt 'decide' anything. loosing my faith was a process.

//It must have been painful, but not as painful as it has been for God to witness someone turning away from Him to trust in their own intellect and ability to guide themselves through life//
First of all, I didnt turn away from God. I said in my OP that I prayed to God That if the Bible was his word then show me. He didnt.
Secondly, if God didnt want us to use our intellect and ability then why endow us with these properties in the first place?

//Living a lie would be looking at the way your life is working out after rejecting God and concluding your own intellect trumps the Bible! Did you ever ask God for help with your unbelief?//
Yes, I asked God to help with my unbelief (or more precisely my diminishing faith) many times. In addition I DIDNT reject God. I wanted to hold on to my faith but couldnt. The way my life worked out after leaving christianity is neither here nor there. I would still have had my problems with depression anyway. In fact they would have been compounded if I'd have stayed in the faith.

//If it's your heart and mind that need help, that's exactly what repentance is- a change of mind and a change of heart//
You can have a change of mind and heart at any time in life without the guilt trip. Ive had many changes in my life because I wanted them bad enough, not because I feel guilty, or sinful, or fearing hellfire (which is a disgusting concept).

//God would grant it freely if you were to turn to Him.//
Youre under the impression that I havnt been there, I have!

//Best wishes, Nailit, the turmoil of unbelief can be replaced by peace as believing.//
Well, best wishes to yourself as well Spungle :-)
But I dont roll with belief (or unbelief) I roll with facts.
As a child I rolled with belief in Santa, but as St Paul says, I have now put childish things behind me...(1 Corinthians 13:11)

[nailit]

//You can't disprove the fact everything is energy, you can only prove it by using it.//
Spath, what is your point in this post? Ive read and reread it and don't get what ur on about?

[Theland]

Oh I feel the frustration of those on here who delight in demanding that I subject myself to the third degree.
I give my opinions, you give yours. That's it.

[naomi24]

Spungle, //Did it ever occur to you that the human intellect is fundamentally inferior to God's word? //

Oh dear. Has it ever occurred to you to really think on that?

Theland, stop playing the martyr. You're not.

[Theland]

Playing the martyr? Nah!
Can you cite any reputable Christian scientists with whom you disagree and why? Listening to the leading atheist scientists like Hawking Dawkins and Krauss is like listening to a comedy act. Their arguments have more holes than a Swiss cheese.
I listen to both sides. The atheists lose the argument based on their weak evidence. Add De Grasse Tyson to that list too.

[naomi24]

Theland, when are you going to answer the question I've asked so many times? Why do you think you know who and what the creator (if one existed) is?

[naomi24]

Theland, I meant to add ... neither you nor the people you listen to are arguing for creation per se .... you're arguing for creation from a specific source - for which there is not one jot of evidence.

[Theland]

Not one jot of evidence?
I think there is loads of evidence for an intelligent designer of the universe.
On the other hand, there is not one jot of evidence that you can present to discount God.
Any explanation you might care to present to explain the universe, abiogenesis, evolution, consequently falls flat. You cannot defend your own thinking so attack mine. That is not very clever is it?

[Theland]

Nailit - This may help you in your despair.
Everything I believe points me to the existence of God.
I give atheist scientists a fair crack but their evidence is always lacking.
So I believe in God. That gives me the knowledge that we are not alone. That I am not alone. Whatever life throws up at me I am quietly confident that whatever happens, God is there, and always will be, and even if I have the most miserable painful life, I still have that knowledge, that when my life ends, that is not the end of my story.
He is our Father, and like any loving father, He is waiting quietly in the background, watching, caring, sharing our pain, so we are never ever alone.
Try to realise this valuable knowledge.
It is a great comfort to me, and can be to you also.