Why Are Jews Persecuted By Christians If They Were The Instruments Of Humankind's Salvation?

[Infomaniac]

I do not understand why the Jews have been, and are still being in some quarters, persecuted by Christians.

Jesus was a Jew, as were his entire family, the people to whom he preached, and all of his followers and supporters. He probably would not recognize the Gentile religion created in his name by Paul of Tarsus, another Jew. Christian tradition blames the Jews for not recognizing Jesus’ divinity, and also blames them for his ignominious death by crucifixion. However, according to Christian theology, Jesus’ death was pre-ordained by God as the means through which the sins of the world were removed and humankind was saved. So why persecute those who were alleged to have brought about this wonderful salvation? Should they not instead be applauded for carrying out God’s intentions and helping save humankind? Similarly Judas Iscariot: if he really did betray Jesus, was he not simply carrying out God's wishes?

[jomifl]

Naomi, does he really? whose rules are they, the board of watchtower?

[Khandro]

jomifl; Yes, also by paraphrasing, the poster does themselves the favour of rationalising just what it is they wish to transmit. The reason I come on here at all (apart from when waiting for paint to dry) is not to attempt to win arguments - heaven forbid, but to clarify and articulate to myself, feelings about certain important, and sometimes not so important, issues.
(If you agree with me three times on the trot, I may start doubting my own credibility :-)

[chrisgel]

The author referred to in Goodlifes link seems like a well balanced sort of guy.

"In 1996, Hart addressed a conference organized by Jared Taylor's race-realist organization, American Renaissance, on the need for a racial partition of the United States. Hart proposed a three-way division with one part for white separatists, one part for black separatists, and one part left as multiracial nation. He said that a peaceful, voluntary partition is the only way to prevent violence"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_H._Hart

[chrisgel]

Sorry Keyplus link.

[naomi24]

Jom, something like that. I’ve taken a leaf out of Goodlife’s book – literally – by cutting and pasting this from the Watchtower organisation’s website – and if you can find any sense in it, do let me know.

//Christians Not Under Decalogue. Jesus was born under the Law, and he kept it perfectly, finally giving up his life as a ransom for mankind. (Ga 4:4; 1Jo 2:2) Furthermore, by his death on the torture stake, he freed those under the Law (including the basic Ten Words or Commandments) “by becoming a curse instead” of them. His death provided for the ‘blotting out of the handwritten document,’ it being nailed to the torture stake.—Ga 3:13; Col 2:13, 14.
Nevertheless, a study of the Law with its Ten Words is essential for Christians, for it reveals God’s viewpoint of matters, and it had “a shadow of the good things to come,” of the reality that belongs to the Christ. (Heb 10:1; Col 2:17; Ga 6:2) Christians are “not without law toward God but under law toward Christ.” (1Co 9:21) But they are not condemned as sinners by that law, for the undeserved kindness of God through Christ provides forgiveness for their errors due to fleshly weakness.—Ro 3:23, 24.//

[naomi24]

Chris, Keyplus thinks Mr Hart is the best thing since sliced bread because Mr Hart puts Mohammed at number one in his own personal popularity chart. Got to wonder why it’s so important to Keyplus to have the endorsement of a westerner. He does the same with poor old embarrassed Professor Keith Moore who 40 odd years ago, under rather suspicious circumstances whilst working for the Saudi royal family, spoke stumblingly on a video to confirm that the wonky science of the Koran on the subject of embryology is accurate. Strangely enough, he’s not said a word about it since. One could be forgiven for thinking that Islam’s word isn’t sufficient for Keyplus.

[jomifl]

It is so nice to have peer group approval, even if it is someone else's peer group:-)

[goodlife]

Naomi when you’ve done an examination in numerical order of six different fields of law mentioned in the Bible. By discovering who the “superiors” and who the “inferiors” then you be able to understand the Sacred Scriptures.(Heb. 8:10.

[Khandro]

10clarion; World wars 1 and 2 were pretty big, but not caused by religion. How's the golf?

[Hypognosis]

Is there any truth to the idea that, in medieval times, laws were set down which prevented Jews from farming, food processing, crafts and a wide range of other economic activities, with money-lending being one of the few sectors where they were permitted to make a living?

I ask because I can't remember where I read this, so apologies for not providing a proper source.

@naomi

Some history programme I saw a few months back made reference to pogrom-like activities occurring in Britain, not long after the Norman conquest. I cannot recall what the supposed provocation was and there was only the vaguest hints of "...who had been tolerated in Britain for centuries*...". Anyway, a suggestion of where to look for evidence of Jews in Britain before 1000AD.

* might have said decades

Infomaniac // So why persecute those who were alleged to have brought about this wonderful salvation? //

Three reasons, really.

1. Ignorance
2. Stupidity
3. Nothing else

[vetuste_ennemi]

There's the York massacre of 1190, HypnGenesis. Simon Schama (à propos of nothing at all) mentioned in his History of Britain that Cromwell of all people introduced some liberalising measures which reduced discrimination against Jews.

[vetuste_ennemi]

My apologies for garbling your name, Hypognosis.

[naomi24]

Goodlife, //when you’ve done an examination in numerical order of six different fields of law mentioned in the Bible….//

Give me a link and I will. I’ve given some passing thought to the ramblings of Jehovah’s Witnesses over a long period of time – and have metaphorically torn the literature that’s been handed to me at the door – and their interpretation of the bible – apart. However, since I’ve concentrated on the mainstream religions, I’ve never studied this cult in depth and I think it could well now become my latest project. It’s a difficult one though, because your website appears to be as purposefully evasive as you are. Just why are you – and it - so secretive? I’ve asked you several times to talk about it – but you won’t – in fact when you first came here in the guise of Elderman, you consistently refused to disclose your affiliation at all. Why is that?

[naomi24]

Hypognosis, the Norman Conquest took place in 1066. Spoonboy was referring to the persecution of Jews in Britain in the pre-Christian era - by the Romans and the Celts .

[Hypognosis]

@vetuste (and, tangentially, @naomi)

Does the account of the event in 1190 have any 'backstory' which confirms their presence in Britain, prior to 1000AD?

I am merely trying to establish a date of arrival, prior to addressing questions of whether they were also persecuted, by Celts or anyone else present at that time.

While we're at it, when did Christianity reach Britain? The Romano-British mosaics which have been dug up are full of non-Christian symbology. How long did the faith take to propagate from the Emperor to these shores?

[naomi24]

According to Wiki, the first written record of Jewish settlement in England dates from 1070. I believe Christianity reached Britain around the 3rd century AD.

[Hypognosis]

Thanks naomi. I'll do some reading as soon as it stops being a Saturday night ;-)

My guess is that, since the Dark Ages residents were mainly raider/trader/invader/feudalism types, there wasn't much private enterprise or any real call for money lenders.

Or literacy, for that matter. Hence the lack of written accounts.

Still, it would be interesting to see if any archaeology places them here prior to 1070 as it would be a sort of marker for a change of culture to a more settled, mercantile era. Maybe William's putting an end to further conquests was precisely that and he paved the way for their way of life to function here?

Also, it would be interesting to see if there was a time gap between the introduction of Christianity here and the banning of usury performed by Christians because, if it was banned for them at the outset, contrary to what I just said there should have been scope for the presence of Jews from 3rd century onward.

[naomi24]

Even if there is any archaeology that places them here prior to 1070 - or in this instance in the pre-Christian era, it doesn't follow that they were persecuted as Spoonboy says. I would like to see the evidence.