ChatterBank2 mins ago
EU membership
20 Answers
" We can live again outside Europe.
Outside the EU we can be a free and properly democratic nation. Free from Europe we could stop half our government spending being wasted, could save the £200 billion a year it costs us to be in Europe, repealing all its 107,000 regulations and stop losing the £22 billion a year to Europe on our balance of payments. With those vast savings we could easily pay all our people a good living wage. According to the OECD we are the fourth strongest economy among the world's 205 independent nations and we will make it handsomely."
Outside the EU we can be a free and properly democratic nation. Free from Europe we could stop half our government spending being wasted, could save the £200 billion a year it costs us to be in Europe, repealing all its 107,000 regulations and stop losing the £22 billion a year to Europe on our balance of payments. With those vast savings we could easily pay all our people a good living wage. According to the OECD we are the fourth strongest economy among the world's 205 independent nations and we will make it handsomely."
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No, they are not my words because it is very difficult to find the truth for the everyday citizen. I do rely on other people's findings because I cannot do otherwise. If these facts are not true I would be glad to hear from somebody else, with other facts to prove them. I am not in the business of 'burying my head in the sand' as most people seem to be. Find out for yourselves and let us get down to the truth, which is all that matters. I would be delighted if I am proved wrong in all this !
[Two Part answer]
The words do provide a strong argument for the UK to leave the EU. (In fact, they provide a strong argument for the abandonment of the “European Project” entirely).
There will be no doubt those who argue over some of the numbers quoted. However there is little doubt that membership of the EU costs the UK (and other “rich” members) a huge amount, much of which is diverted to support French farmers and, more notably, the “poorer” new members in the east. Even worse than this though is the complete loss of control that nations now experience in even the most mundane affairs, ostensibly in the name of “harmonisation” but in fact in order to achieve political, legal and financial control.
The initial sales pitch to the UK people was that it “Common Market” (as it then was) was to be a trading bloc which was to see the removal of trading barriers and so facilitate easier and more plentiful trade between the nation members. Of course nothing was further from the truth and the plan was always to create a European Nation State. We are almost there and the only question is whether the final step (the abandonment of nation states entirely and a “United States of Europe” declared) is achieved before the whole thing blows up (as it surely will).
People of Europe have been deceived over the last 50 years. They have been told that each new Treaty is simply “tidying up” existing arrangements. In truth each has added by stealth, ever greater powers to the undemocratic EU until the Lisbon Treaty (and I have read it) entitles the EU to do virtually as it pleases with little opportunity for national veto. The promise by the Tories of a vote on any future treaties is hollow. There will be no future treaties – there is no need for any.
The words do provide a strong argument for the UK to leave the EU. (In fact, they provide a strong argument for the abandonment of the “European Project” entirely).
There will be no doubt those who argue over some of the numbers quoted. However there is little doubt that membership of the EU costs the UK (and other “rich” members) a huge amount, much of which is diverted to support French farmers and, more notably, the “poorer” new members in the east. Even worse than this though is the complete loss of control that nations now experience in even the most mundane affairs, ostensibly in the name of “harmonisation” but in fact in order to achieve political, legal and financial control.
The initial sales pitch to the UK people was that it “Common Market” (as it then was) was to be a trading bloc which was to see the removal of trading barriers and so facilitate easier and more plentiful trade between the nation members. Of course nothing was further from the truth and the plan was always to create a European Nation State. We are almost there and the only question is whether the final step (the abandonment of nation states entirely and a “United States of Europe” declared) is achieved before the whole thing blows up (as it surely will).
People of Europe have been deceived over the last 50 years. They have been told that each new Treaty is simply “tidying up” existing arrangements. In truth each has added by stealth, ever greater powers to the undemocratic EU until the Lisbon Treaty (and I have read it) entitles the EU to do virtually as it pleases with little opportunity for national veto. The promise by the Tories of a vote on any future treaties is hollow. There will be no future treaties – there is no need for any.
[Part Two]
People in the UK need to be able to determine who governs them. If the majority are happy to be governed by an unelected elite operating from Brussels then so be it. We can simply close Westminster and all the Town Halls and at least make a small saving. If, as I suspect, they do not relish this thought they should be given the chance to say so and to have their wishes enacted.
The likelihood of this happening under the current system is extremely small to say the least. All three major parties are fiercely pro-Europe. To understand why you only need to look at where many failed or ousted politicians turn for future employment. To hear some of them extol the virtues of European integration is to wonder what planet they are living on. Recently “Lord” Mandleson announced that the Euro had been a resounding success. This was shortly after Greece had been declared all but bankrupt, mainly because of its membership of the single currency and three other nations were creaking at the seams for similar reasons. No matter, Greece now finds itself subject to financial imperialism where all the major decisions affecting its economy will be made in Berlin. So I suppose Mandleson is right.
The UK needs to extricate itself from this mess quickly and let those who want the shape of their sausages dictated by foreign civil servants get on with it.
But it won’t.
People in the UK need to be able to determine who governs them. If the majority are happy to be governed by an unelected elite operating from Brussels then so be it. We can simply close Westminster and all the Town Halls and at least make a small saving. If, as I suspect, they do not relish this thought they should be given the chance to say so and to have their wishes enacted.
The likelihood of this happening under the current system is extremely small to say the least. All three major parties are fiercely pro-Europe. To understand why you only need to look at where many failed or ousted politicians turn for future employment. To hear some of them extol the virtues of European integration is to wonder what planet they are living on. Recently “Lord” Mandleson announced that the Euro had been a resounding success. This was shortly after Greece had been declared all but bankrupt, mainly because of its membership of the single currency and three other nations were creaking at the seams for similar reasons. No matter, Greece now finds itself subject to financial imperialism where all the major decisions affecting its economy will be made in Berlin. So I suppose Mandleson is right.
The UK needs to extricate itself from this mess quickly and let those who want the shape of their sausages dictated by foreign civil servants get on with it.
But it won’t.
Well, don't blame me. I voted "No" way back at the beginning, but it didn't do me any good. I have a natural mistrust of politicians, which is partly why I voted "No", and, judging by the readers' letters in the papers, there are many more people who feel the same way. Where were they in 1972 or 1973?
I volunteered for aircrew in 1942 in order to help our country not to be taken over by another European country. In the end we succeeded, to protect our way of life and to continue to live in the British way. Now that country is part of a plan to absorb us into the EU by a more subtle way. There is no doubt about it that the EU is a corrupt and wasteful organization. Neil Kinnock was appointed years ago to sort out and put a stop to the cheating and waste that was going on. As far as I can find out, he failed absolutely. Even their auditors are unable to make sense of what is going on. Think twice, or if necessary more than twice , to decide whether you want our laws to be changed, as many have been already, so that we have little say in how we live our lives and have ridiculous laws inflicted on us. We will not be able to avoid putting them into practice. Are you prepared for that or are you going to do something about it at the General Election ?
A quick check tells me that 4,462,270 jobs in the UK that are maintained by the UK trade with the EU, amounting to 15.74% of total UK jobs.
Now I'll be straight with you. I've no idea what would happen if the UK pulled out. i doubt all of this trade would be lost. But I don't live in the UK, and i do work for a multinational company, and I can tell you the trade barriers that exist between the EU and, say, the USA make it nigh on impossible for us to export there. Trade to the middle east is difficult due to the mad levels of paperwork, and to countries like Norway is hampered by incredible customs difficulties.
Before The UK joined the EEC, only 13% of your exports were to European countries. it's now 55%. Your population is simply too large to close the borders to trade.
Now I'll be straight with you. I've no idea what would happen if the UK pulled out. i doubt all of this trade would be lost. But I don't live in the UK, and i do work for a multinational company, and I can tell you the trade barriers that exist between the EU and, say, the USA make it nigh on impossible for us to export there. Trade to the middle east is difficult due to the mad levels of paperwork, and to countries like Norway is hampered by incredible customs difficulties.
Before The UK joined the EEC, only 13% of your exports were to European countries. it's now 55%. Your population is simply too large to close the borders to trade.
We don't need to close the borders to trade, Whickerman. We could continue to have 100% access to the Single Market (the only European connection that the people of the UK have ever voted for) as do Norway and Switzerland, without the colossal expense, the surrender of sovereignty and the general nause of belonging to the EU.
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As Old Geezer says, trade is decided by traders, not by mere politicians, however much those politicians may sulk and pout at our departure from their vast bureaucracy.
In any case how could they possibly deny us access to the Single Market when they allow it to Switzerland and Norway?
We'd be all right, a lot richer and a democracy again.
In any case how could they possibly deny us access to the Single Market when they allow it to Switzerland and Norway?
We'd be all right, a lot richer and a democracy again.
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