police brutality????

[stokemaveric]

now i am against the police agression at the recent events in london and i hope that the policemen that were violent and used ''reasonable force'' against the g20 protestors are brought to justice....but can anyone remember pc keith blakelock and the broadwater farm horror......no wonder the police sh*te themselves sometimes.........................

[paraffin]

I remember that well - 1985 Broadwater Farm Estate, London.

I was working that night when word came through about it. I remember seeing some people on TV on the following days actually celebrating.

In fact, wasn't one of them the late MP Bernie Grant who made some reference to the effect that the Police had gotten a bloody good hiding.(or words similar?)

Mmmmhhhhhhh

[stokemaveric]

hi paraffin thanxfor your response....i think the mob actually hacked the poor guys head off.....horrific.........

[paraffin]

Yes, that's basically correct.

And as has been mentioned on another post today, there has been virtually nothing else in the news other than the G20 protests and the alleged Police brutality, whereas a Met Police Officer has just lost his life after he was attacked trying to prevent an aggravated burglary / robbery the other day. He was on life support machine but died anyway.

No big hoo hah in the media about that?

[stokemaveric]

you are right paraffin....at the end of the day,no matter how much training you have,if you are in a patrol of say 30 officers or whatever unit you are in and you are confronted by a baying mob,human nature kicks in...self preservation is your main objective,if you get seperated from your unit you are in BIG trouble....make no mistake whether you are in london,belfast baghdad or wherever the mob WILL maim or kill you....but i STILL disagree with the action of the policemans actions against ian tomlinson.....that was unforgivable.............

[paraffin]

I've already stated on a few posts that the Officer who pushed Mr Tomlinson is on a very shaky peg indeed. There was no need for him to push the guy as hard as he appeared to do, that's the damning thing which may yet see him convicted of something like manslaughter.

But I still am reluctant to pre-empt anything because the fact is that none of us knows yet what the outcome of that IPCC enquiry will be, no matter how bleak it would seem for that particular Officer. The bottom line is that he shouldn't have used the force he did.

I'm just glad I don't have to decide the outcome.

[jno]

people who kill others are generally called murderers. The people who catch them are called police. But there's a problem when policemen are murderers, would it be fair to say?

(That's just a general observation, I'm not prejudging what happened the other day. It just seems worrying when there's not a clear blue line between one side and the other.)

[123everton]

You don't join the police if you want a quiet working life, they are paid and trained to put themselves in harms way.
I have the utmost sympathy for the family of and praise for the bravery, dedication and professionalism of the officer who died recently.
But when they get it wrong they need to know it, I have said previously I don't think either officer should go to jail if found guilty, I've also that I'm unsure as to whether they should lose their jobs over it.

[Joy11]

Am I alone in thinking the statement given by the young lady who was allegedly attacked by another policeman at the G20, said, quote"I feared for my life" was a little bit over dramatised, as much as i am appalled at the actions of the few, it is also said a lot of the police were hiding their numbers???
And the lady I am reffering to, when being interviewed,, said she thought the police were there to protect her, yes, and also uphold law and order, she apparently was hit by a policemans baton, whilst she and others were holdong a vigil for Mr Tomlinson, was that straight away or the day after????
If it was straight awtay, it's odd to be doing that then, if it was the following day which normally occur after such a tradgedy, then why was there a heavy police presence, a bit confusing!!

[Strauss]

It's nice that you have found the police guilty. That should save a lot of money on an impartial enquiry looking at all the circumstances and questioning witnesses.

[paraffin]

Well said, Strauss - who needs impartiality when we can have kangaroo court justice (complete with baying lynch mob) instead?

[jno]

nothing in the question says the police were guilty, strauss.

But stokemaveric, I don't think there was any question of the 'mob' maiming or killing any policeman here. As far as I can remember, Blakelock is the only one that's happened to. (And justice was not served in that case: the defendants were jailed, but freed years later on appeal when it turned out police notes had been tampered with; so it's quite possible the real killers are still at large.)

[paraffin]

jno:

"Blakelock is the ONLY one that's happened to."

So, PC Gary Toms who died the other day after having been attacked last week trying to prevent a serious crime does not count, eh?

He is only the most recent example. You are simply talking out of a large orifice in the lower end of your torso if that is your opinion. Get your facts straight.

"as far as I can remember" What, you can remember back to 1985 better than you can last week? Or perhaps people like you are so wrapped up in the G20 hysteria that the really serious news concerning Police Officers being murdered in the line of duty is of no consequence?

[olddutch]

The police are not above the law and should conduct themselves accordingly. What seems to be happening in recent times is that some police are using violence against protesters in an unprovoked offensive manner rather than in a provoked defensive manner. There is a perception that this unacceptable method of police operation is condoned, if not sanctioned, by those controlling police operations.This needs to be stopped by those in authority and a reasonable approach by all police adopted.

Many policeman do a perfectly good job for us all - including the control of protests - but ALL policeman should be doing this.

It goes without saying that all respectful Policemen should be treated respectfully - and all Policeman should not be attacked or murdered - they have an often difficult dangerous and necessary job to do for us all - but the police need to behave reasonably and as respectfully as possible to keep the public onside.

[paraffin]

olddutch:

I've just read your post and would just like to quote you:

"the police need to behave reasonably and as respectfully as possible to keep the public onside."

Mmmmmmmhhhhhhhhhh???? Are Police Officers human? Have you ever been one? Have you ever been confronted by a multitude of people screaming abuse at you, invading your personal space, spitting at you, throwing urine over you, throwing excrement at you, throwing petrol bombs at you, throwing rocks, bottles, scaffolding poles etc at you, trying to stab you, spewing on you, spouting the vilest of insults in your face, kicking out at you if they get close enough, headbutting you, etc etc etc.

No one who has never experienced what I've described can truly know what it is to be a Police Officer in Great Britain today.

If you still feel that your comments are justifiable, olddutch, then please feel free to refute my last paragraph.

[123everton]

Parafin, with the exception of scaffolding poles, fire bombs and excrement then I can say I have had those things happen to me or know people it's happened to.
I dare say if you go to Ulster you can find bus drivers (like me) who could fill most if not all of those blanks.
In such situations you have to stay calm.

[paraffin]

123:

So, by your logic, bus drivers, particularly in Ulster, have had mobs of several thousand people confronting them, have they?

I'm well aware of the history of the "troubles" but cannot recollect such an example. Nor can I remember it happening in the rest of the UK.

Therefore, the next time there's a large demo in the UK, we'd better send in the bus drivers, eh? After all, theyre used to such situations, aren't they?

In the meantime, while they're dealing with the several thousand "peaceful protesters", those idle Police Officers could fill in their time driving buses! Great idea! So are you up for that, 123? I think I know the answer - it starts with "n" and ends with "o" - correct?

[danchip]

not even the police could run the buses later than normal bus drivers!

Police are trained to defend themselves in any way using any force necessary if they feel their lives are in danger and reasonable force in any other circumstance,

its very well saying the police shouldn't have used as much force as they did but on the other hand, these people shouldn't of been there acting in that manner in the first place!

Also there is little mention in the news about the police being hindered in their attempts to administer medical aid to Mr Tomlinson from mindless idiots throwing bottles and bricks at them.

[123everton]

What I'm saying (again) is that seriously outnumbered I have faced groups of men screaming abuse and throwing things, in these circumstances I must stay calm in order to quell the situation. I'm not trained or equipped to deal with such situations and in the event canot call on back up (like a bus driving hit squad) if I can stay calm an deal professionally with such a group then it is reasonable IMHO to expect a police officr to do so also.
Is it not?

[paraffin]

123:

I fail to see any logical connection in what I've said and your points of view and here's why:

You, sitting in your bus being harangued by a few snotty nosed yobs is regrettable and, in a perfect world, would not happen. Your example, though, is akin to teachers being abused by unruly pupils, or social workers by saddo druggies, or benefit office people by disenchanted claimants.
But in any or most of those scenarios, it is fair to say that you would all have the Police called or informed, yes?

When is the last time you, or any of the other examples I've given, have gone to work knowing that you would be dealing with thousands of people "in your face" the whole day, being harassed, cursed at, assaulted and abused in all sorts of ways for all of that time by them, not knowing if you would get home that night, let alone in one piece? That is not exaggeration, that is fact. And who comes to the assistance of the Police? No one.

And do you think that all your decisions under such hassle,
aggression and pressure would be calm and considered? The last person, and only one according to Christian beliefs, who had all those superhuman attributes was nailed to a cross a few thousand years ago.

You are seriously deluded if you believe that the Police are anything other than human with all the attendant frailties of the human race.

[DrFilth]

with the exception of scaffolding poles, fire bombs and excrement

Everton with the last one on your list is it true you have never been to a local derby match with liverpool


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