Decisions Have Consequences

[Hymie]

You vote for a policy (Brexit) that will result in a large number of critically needed staff working within the NHS, leaving the country – as a direct result of the lack of available hospital care, thousands die (at a rate of 1,500 a year).

 

Explain to me why (as a Brexit voter), the thousands of avoidable deaths have nothing to do with you.

[ynnafymmi]

Yes,as i pointed out to you yesterday Hymie,Mick Lynch and Magic Grandpaw have a lot to answer for.

[naomi24]

Weren't Europeans from EU states working here offered the opportunity to stay?  I'm pretty sure they were.

[mushroom25]

You have, I believe, posted enough of these guiltsplaining posts for you to realise that the tactic won't induce contrition into your audience.

"J'Accuse!!"

nah Hymie, doesn't cut it.

[barry1010]

Yes they were, Naomi

[Old_Geezer]

One might have thought one should give things a rest regarding making ridiculous remoaning claims & accusations.  Is the intent to carry on forever like this ?  Do other forum sites endure the same ?

[Hymie]

I’m genuinely interested in why those who voted for Brexit, think that they bear no responsibility for the disastrous impact Brexit has had on the UK.

[barry1010]

I suggest you research the state of public health services in EU countries, Hymie, particularly France and Italy.

[ToraToraTora]

get some help me old china.

[naomi24]

Brexit hasn't had a disastrous effect upon the UK.  Remainers have, since the referendum was announced, been desperate to create difficulties and they work hard at it - and for that they should be ashamed.

[theshedman]

Why another thread the same as the one you put on here on Thursday.  People didn't agree with the rubbish then as I don't expect they will now with maybe one or two exceptions.

[Hymie]

My research shows that the UK has circa 2.8 medical doctors per 1,000 of the population, compared with France’s 3.4 and Italy’s 4.1.

In relation to hospital beds, the UK has circa 2.5 per 1,000 of the population, whereas France has 5.9 and Italy 3.1 (in relation to hospital bed provision, only one country within the OECD/EU has a lower proportion than the UK).

 

So the public health services in France and Italy is better than the UK – but this has nothing to do with Brexit.

[naomi24]

//So the public health services in France and Italy is better than the UK //

 

A friend of mine underwent surgery in Italy and spent a week recovering in a corridor before a bed in a ward was found for her.  Europe isn't all it's cracked up to be, Hymie.  Far from it. 

[ToraToraTora]

11:35 try having an accident without insurance me old china. They are not civilised in the EUSSR.

[Untitled]

people who voted for brexit do bear responsibility for its consequences (good and bad)... clearly they have made the decision that on balance it is preferable. i suppose many of the people who voted for it did not seriously believe it would have consequences for them which were on balance negative. they are probably right too--it is young people who will feel those the most.

[naomi24]

untitled, // i suppose many of the people who voted for it did not seriously believe it would have consequences for them which were on balance negative.//

 

I haven't experienced any negative consequences.

[Old_Geezer]

Your genuine interest is based on a false claim. Which is why it is invalid, and both it and similar threads, ought to be left alone.

[New Judge]

"So the public health services in France and Italy is better than the UK – but this has nothing to do with Brexit."

No it hasn't because if you look back to pre-2020 the comparative figures you mention were much the same. Those measures have been deteriorating in the UK for decades and that deterioration has nothing to do with Brexit.

Much of the reason is that the NHS model is no longer fit for purpose (if it ever was). No other democratic country in the world has copied it and is ever likely to. If it was proposed (from scratch) in the UK today that proposal  would get short shrift from across the political spectrum.

Thousands upon thousands of people die every year as a result of deficiencies in the NHS. They die whilst waiting for ambulances; they die whilst waiting to be seen in A&E; they die whilst waiting for life-saving treatment after diagnosis; they die as a result of rampant disorganisation. How the report you cited can disentangle those deaths from the deaths allegedly caused by staff shortage which (again allegedly) were caused by Brexit must be open to debate and should be treated cautiously rather than with reverence.

But leaving the NHS aside (which was covered comprehensively in your post on this topic yesterday) it might be better to concentrate on your general point.

Yesterday you suggested that the politicians who enacted a policy with which you did not agree should be charged with manslaughter. Today you’ve moved on to lay culpability with the electorate who, when asked a binary question in a referendum, gave their answer.

Your position in that respect is ludicrous. In a democracy voters make their choices from the options offered. In the referendum there were two choices and the majority of those voting voted to leave. What you are saying is that voters must be aware of all the potential consequences of their vote and take personal responsibility for them.

I believe you need a re-think of that philosophy because it is ridiculous.

[ToraToraTora]

I think what the judge is so eloquently saying is - Don't be plonker!

[cassa333]

I have only one regret over Brexit.

That regret is that we didn' have and still don' t have polititians willing or able to negotiate on our behalf.

They are without exception weak wristed appologists. They back down at the sight of a mere feather. What we have always needed is our own Trump to kick arze and shake the establishment out of their self induced stupour. 

Brexit want the problem the government was (and continues to be).

[Prudie]

Seriously this is exactly what you posted about day the before yesterday, slightly rejigged. Do you not remember? It is almost worrying (I would be if it were me).