# Listener 4114 - Three Square by Elap

Philoctetes | 16:18 Fri 26th Nov 2010 | Crosswords
No - I haven't quite finished it yet. Still, one of the joys of a Listener comes when you learn something new, and primitive triangles are new to me. I assume that the numbers in the threes are also the genuine "answers". I do love the mathematicals!

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I wish that I could share your enjoyment Philoctetes. For me, mathematicals always have a certain aaaaaarrrrrggghhh factor.
I have to say, on brief inspection, this one does look like a bit of a snorter! The aaaaaarrrrrrggghhh factor could be high!
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I agree. As a Classicist by training I just look at them and feel I can see nowhere even to start. Then gradually, step by bloody step, I drag myself up the path. It's the sense of eventual achievement I love - much bigger (IMHO) than the wordy ones.
For those, like me, who didn't know what relatively prime numbers are, a pair of numbers is relatively prime if their only shared integer is 1. Well it's a start.
Bitterly disappointed. Having decided at the end of August to "have a go" at The Listener, I've had a recent streak of 10 successful completions, and enjoyed the cut and thrust of this thread. This week, and the 2 previous to it, have constituted for me a brick wall. Having arrived at a grid fill + definition and instructions in 4112 (Girl), I could not bring myself to cut up my only copy of the grid (I do not subscribe to the Times on line) and failed on the 4 word phrase. I solved and sent off the "ordinary" last Saturday, only to subsequently discover that half of Listener 4113 (Liberty Bell) had been sent away with it. Why did they suddenly decide to print them back to back? Now the AB thread is telling me 4114 is a mathematical puzzle, from which I will derive no pleasure whatsover. Oh well, I hope 4115 will offer a better prospect of success.
Turast, stay with us. You are not alone in deriving no pleasure at all from the numerical ones (and thanks, Contendo - I hadn't the slightest clue what a relative prime was) but these beastly things come round only once in three months and difficult ones like last week's don't crop up very often. Ten successes on the run is pretty good going!
Almost, contendo - a pair of numbers is relatively prime if their only shared factor is 1 (or, equivalently, if their greatest common divisor is 1)
No. Did the last three numb-ers, but not this time. It's been too long a week to muck about with numbers even if they are primitive. All the best everyone - see you next week.
I haven't finished either yet - however my question is: Why on earth is the timing of the numericals (whch I enjoy as a change) being moved to avoid bank holidays? How are the two things related in any way?
Clearly, BlackHugh, market research has indicated that numericals are fine at any time except Bank Holidays ... so if Cameron's crew ever get around to reading this thread, could they please take note, and find some way to arrange a BH for every week.
Meanwhile, I suspect that I will let this one get the better of me. I am however more than a little impressed by the optimistic 'yet' s in at least two of the above posts! Go for it guys, and good luck everybody.
I think this is going to beat me, too. I found a way in, but ground to a halt with only 17 squares populated. I'm sure there's something lurking amongst the scalenes that will provide the next boost, but they are so convoluted that I can't see my way through. My happiness index has definitely fallen.
Self-centred Midazolam here! Not started this yet, but after a quick glance this looks like one for the numberphiles of you out there.
Remind me - what is the square root of FA? I'm sure it'll come in handy in this puzzle.
I have a full grid aside from the shaded areas. Absolutely no inspiration as yet as to what to do with these
I'm at about the same stage as AHearer. My answers seem to be holding up, which is more than I can say for my morale. Still, what else would I be doing this afternoon ?
Returning to the subject of relative primeness, I'm a little concerned about the second scalene triangle. I have most of the grid filled, but now find that (H2 + p3) and n3 share a factor of 5, which is not allowed. I can't find alternative values for any of these 3 terms and wonder if this 'brick wall' is of my own making - does anyone else have a similar concern ?
I'm at work, Starwalker. Just looked in to say hello and see you all next week.

dr b, I'm throughly enjoying the Mark Twain autobiography, I will mail you separately with a few observations.
mysterons my n3 does not have a factor of 5

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