Listener 4067

[Clamzy]

Welcome to a new Listener year with Be My Guest by MR E for starters.

[Clamzy]

Speravi and Ruthrobin - not quite with you on 31ac. I had it as a straightforward "hidden" clue.

[cluelessJoe]

I'm right with you on that Clamzy - it's just a regulation hidden clue, and I can't really find another way to interpret it and make it work even by switching the verb form.

[daagg]

I think their point is that the main verb is not in the correct singular form. I don't have a problem with the clue as it is written - we've still worked it out, and what's wrong with a bit of extra thinking! It would be a shame if this crossword couldn't push the boundaries a bit.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, exactly Daagg. The surface reading does matter and should honour grammatical rules. I am surprised to find it otherwise in a Listener.

[daagg]

I'm both agreeing and disgreeing with you, RR. I think you are correct that the clue does not obey normal crossword rules. However, I think there is no problem in breaking those rules.

[Ruthrobin]

It will be interesting to see whether all those well-known compilers on 'the other' nessage board pick this one up and accept it or moan about it - in three weeks' time.

[teuchter2]

Happy New Year to everyone. I didn't look at this until I had finished' which was this morning. I had problems trudging through the snow to buy my Times only to discover that it hadn't made it up from Dundee, so a repeat journey later on Saturday led to a very scruffy copy and a late start. I thought I wouldn't get into it at all, but gradually got there. I think I'll need to splash out on joining the Times crossword club. Anyway I quite enjoyed this one, so a good start to the year. I agree that some of the clueing is not quite up to scratch. Where is the other message board?

[Clamzy]

Teuchter2 The other board is here:
http://www.b2g2.com/b...d.cgi?&user=dharrison

[shelouse]

I think if you examine the definition of the theme, together with the title you should have a clear idea of how to XBY giving what you would expect to receive if you were a 20d

[Speravi]

I don't mind rules being broken if it leads to added value, but in this instance it seems to me that it was an oversight (rather than a manifestation of ignorance or laziness) that should have been picked up in the vetting process. I don't think that 'rules were made to be broken' is an excuse for inelegance, as in this case: the clue could have been reformulated (or even rewritten) so that it was more aesthetically pleasing.

[Mysterons]

Regarding 31 across, it is OK in the sense that (The letters of) 'Refineddoesnt' contain a source of food.

[bobbycollins]

Phew

I am often staggered at how easy the experts find some of these. It took me ages to get going - about two hours for half a dozen clues - but once I did start moving I trundled along slowly but steadily. Quite a toughie for yours truly and I'm glad that I persevered.

happy new year to all

[Speravi]

I take your point, Mysterons, and punctuation may mislead, so,"R,e,f,i,n,e,d,d,o,e,s,n,t contain, etc.", if I understand you correctly (and we may disregard the apostrophe because it's misleading punctuation). I think you've rescued it.

[easterfool]

May I join in wishing all a very happy and solving (and solvent) New Year. After a long pause because I have been slow in starting the crosswords, I made a resolution to start early. This one didn't take long and the idea behind became apparent early on. I found that I solved in blocks - bottom left, then across to the right and finally up to the top right. Clues quite straight forward - I'm not a purist - so if I can see where it is going, I forget the grammar. I expect that my old English teachers would agree with that - if they were still alive and reading this.
It seems that we are going to need coloured pens, scissors and various other equipment to do the Listeners in future. Barring transcription errors, I think that I have 100% so far - wow!

[Speravi]

For the avoidance of doubt, my earlier posts about 31ac were not motivated by an unthinking pedantry, but by a belief that the clue as it stood was both unfair (see Ruthrobin's earlier comment) and inelegant.

[Sarrie]

Happy New Year.
I've finished but can't understand the wordplay for 6 down. Any hints?

[JackDeCrow]

Sarrie, turn the answer you've got around and put an abbreviation for spelling before it and see if it becomes any clearer.
Happy New Year to all and I quite agree with everyone who found that quite hard to start with.
And I still don't get 1d.

[Mysterons]

'When' = as
'Very good' = so
'Nancy' = a French word describing what it is

[Eril]

Yes, a nice one - fortunately as we had to solve two this weekend gone, having been away last weekend. I would like to side with the setter re the rubric, though, Speravi. The subject of the sentence is a single answer to a clue, and the rubric therefore makes it doubly clear that there is only ever one cell with a pair of 'doubled up' letters in a grid entry.

[jacinth]

My New Year's resolution regarding these was to start (and sometimes) finish earlier. So far, so good! I found this harder to start but easier to finish than 4066! The clueing was fairly tough, but once I saw what was going on with the double cells, things fell into place pretty quickly. A pleasant start.