Clue Error? Inaccurate Preamble?

[ProfessorMaisie]

Can't find a way to deal with the clue at 12 that works with the message - and I have two answers entered straight across without cycling (the preamble has only two entry methods, ''cyclically inwards or outwards'' / ''jumbled'').

Yes, everything works out neatly for the endgame but it's been quite a slog - if there are errors it's a particularly bad oversight given the complexity of the puzzle.

 

[Captain2]

Which crossword, Prof?

[ProfessorMaisie]

Sorry, Captain2 - I hardly ever post questions and I assumed the boxes I filled in would carry that information across.

It's Listener Crossword 4865.

[Captain2]

It's OK, Prof, I've never asked a question!

Not looked at The Listener yet, I'm somewhat behind.

Perhaps you'll have to wait for the weekly Listener thread, when the 'experts' chew the fat.

[ProfessorMaisie]

I know I should give the special instructions too, but the preamble is very lengthy (please don't ask for a summary}.

 

[ProfessorMaisie]

Can't see the usual place having anything but rave reviews for this one, Captain - in fact I rarely visit it now - so please let me know how you get on in due course.

[perseverer]

Clue 12 has a misprint, not an extra?

[Captain2]

Sorry Prof, I mean the weekly Listener thread here on AB (I don't go elsewhere either).

[ProfessorMaisie]

I meant the AB thread, Captain - I was banned from the other place (my opinions were not sensitive enough}.

Yes, perseverer, it appears to be a misprint clue - and even then its problematic. I was trying to give no more information than strictly necessary (knowing how sensitive you Listener regulars are). The partner for 12 is definitely a misprint clue because it has to be entered jumbled for the endgame to work.

[ProfessorMaisie]

I'm OK with 12 now I've checked the abbrev. in Chambers - the clue can be worked both ways (deliberately, no doubt).

Just the cycling issue concerning me now.

[Keepatit]

I don't understand your issue with 12, ProfessorMaisie. You've identified that its partner is a misprint clue, so it has an extra letter in wordplay and has to be entered cyclically, and you are told its first letter in in ring 2, so it must be either 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 1, or 2, 1, 6, 5, 4, 3. And it is one of those.

[ProfessorMaisie]

It was my mistake, keepatit - I had the wrong abbreviation giving me the wrong extra letter and I should have checked it earlier (my reply to perseverer was meant to remove any uncertainty regarding the clue type - that was never an issue). As it is, I haven't had a problem with the clue for some time now (I had the correct answer/entry in place).

Have you any thoughts on the cycling issue? That still bothers me (although it can't possibly effect the grid or the endgame).

[ProfessorMaisie]

I found perseverer's reply ambiguous because it is possible to arrive at the correct answer via the misprint device - my reply was an attempt to scotch that idea.

[Keepatit]

Re the cycling issue, I agree that two answers are entered straight. I think it's just a clumsy choice of wording in the preamble. It should say something like "non-jumbled entries start in the row indicated by the number in brackets at the end of the clue, and go either inwards or outwards, wrapping round if they reach the edge".

[ProfessorMaisie]

Thanks, Keepatit - yes, but I think the two anomalies should have been addressed because there's quite enough doubt and confusion going on here as it is.

[Keepatit]

I don't disagree, ProfessorMaisie. It also threw me for a while that what was spelt by the extra letters began part way through a word 

[perseverer]

Apologies if my contribution caused more confusion, I was just trying to avoid being explicit, while pointing out 2 possibilities.

[ProfessorMaisie]

I sympathise, perseverer (because I've added far more confusion to the thread as it's gone on}.