We Heard What He Said............

[10ClarionSt]

.........but the text said said different. In an old b&w film recently, a military officer said "I cannot have people being called by their Christian names",
but the text on the screen said "I cannot have people being called by their first names". Why the change? Who are we trying to placate with that?

[fiction-factory]

Maybe they are not trying to placate anyone- just trying to help any viewers, maybe younger ones or ones from different cultures, who are more familiar with the term 'first names'. Language changes.

[jno]

who's "we"? Who did the subtitles?

[Old_Geezer]

They're probably just trying to be a bunch of morons. It's amazing how many folk still try to claim a Christian name is related to Christianity when it's blatantly obviously not. It's the word used to denote an individual's non-family name(s).

[10ClarionSt]

The usual people, I presume jno. Maybe I should have said "they"? Would that have been better?

[Sqad]

I take your point Clarion, whichever way one decides to spin it, John and Peter would understand Mohammed and Salman and vice versa so for the majority of viewers it is no big deal.
However, not to upset the "sensitive" and to illustrate that we understand and respect other religions and not cause a "stir", the subtitles were manipulated.

[jno]

they were called Christian names because they were given to you at your Christian baptism. If you are unbaptised and on your way to hell, you shouldn't be allowed to claim your name is Christian.

[jno]

I don't know who the usual people are, Clarion, it was a serious question. It might have been the film makers, might have been the TV company if it was on TV, but they'd have differing reasons for doing this according to who they think their audience is.

[Old_Geezer]

You had the christian name on your birth certificate way way before any baptism; if you even had one. Clearly the baptism is irrelevant.

[Rockrose]

Why are you always looking for something the get offended and uptight about?
Are you suggesting that they changed it so as not to offend Muslims?
If so I hardly doubt that the ones it may upset would be watching a old war film

[hc4361]

In England births were first registered in 1837. Before that the official record was the church baptism record when the child was christened, hence christian name.

Many subtitles are changed to shorter words or words and phrases are left out completely, especially during long and fast dialogue. This helps the viewer keep up with the film and still get the meaning, Maybe the change from christian to first is as simple as that

[naomi24]

It makes more sense to interpret it as 'first name'. That covers everyone.

[fiction-factory]

Although I doubt many younger viewers would have been watching the film it is the case that a lot of youngsters now don't know what the term Christian name means. The term forename/first name (or sometimes given name) are (rightly or wrongly) used much more- and that tide can't be turned back

[New Judge]

"Language changes."

"It makes more sense to interpret it as 'first name'. That covers everyone."

Very true. But the function of sub-titles (where no translation from a foreign language is concerned) is not to provide an interpretation. It is simply to provide the viewers with a written script so that those who cannot hear sufficiently well are able to follow. If the dialogue in the film was "Christian" the the sub-titles should reflect this. The argument that it is "...trying to help any viewers, maybe younger ones or ones from different cultures, who are more familiar with the term 'first names'." is false. No such interpretation is provided in the spoken dialogue (which I imagine is followed by the vast majority of viewers) so why should it be provided in the text? "Younger viewers" who are listening and who do not understand it have to make enquiries. You never know, it might acquaint them with some of the historical facts that have been outlined here.

[naomi24]

NJ, sub-titles rarely reflect the complete script verbatim. Too many words.

[THECORBYLOON]

NJ, subtitles often deviate from the script, even when the programme isn't live. As long as the gist of the dialogue is there, does it matter?

[New Judge]

"NJ, sub-titles rarely reflect the complete script verbatim. Too many words."

"Christian" 1 word, 9 characters
"First" 1 word, 5 characters

Hardly a deal breaker, I would suggest, naomi.

"As long as the gist of the dialogue is there, does it matter?"

Yes it does. It's altering the dialogue of a film for no good reason. If the character in the film said "Christian" then that's what should be shown. The same issue arose with Wing Commander Guy Gibson's dog (whose name, ridiculously, I cannot display on here even in this context) and in that case in many showings even the sound dialogue has been altered. People need to know what was said and done in the past. It helps them understand why things are as they are in the present. Rubbing it out doesn't help.

[zebo]

When the 75th anniversary showing of The Dam Busters included a live link to, I think, the Royal Albert Hall, Dan Snow was doing the introduction and he tied himself in knots apologising for the dog's name that was being kept in the original.

[Mamyalynne]

Did you enjoy the film 10C?

[naomi24]

NJ, // The same issue arose with Wing Commander Guy Gibson's dog//

When I read this OP that’s the first thing that occurred to me, and I agree with you about erasing history, but I think this is something quite different. I’m not sure we should be getting miffed about efforts to provide a word that can be understood by all.

[Buenchico]

Many young people nowadays would find the term 'Christian name' to be rather odd and somewhat baffling to them - especially if their own name is Mohammed and their friends all have names which have no connection to Christianity. (e.g. Dax, Fingal and Sanjay).

'First name' (or 'forename') makes much more sense these days, although 'given name' is probably better because some cultures reverse the order of names. (For example, I work with a guy called Amna Usman. Amna is his family name and Usman is his given name).

Lots of terms related to Christianity are now (thankfully) disappearing from our language. For example my friend (who is a dedicated Roman Catholic) always uses 'CE' and 'BCE' instead of 'AD' and 'BC' when referring to dates, as I also try to do.