Hillsborough: "Key Findings"

[Kerosene]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...d-merseyside-19577033

So there we have it, the exhaustive 18 month study of over 400,000 documents has basically damned the Police and almost no one else. Their 'key findings' more or less lay the blame fairly and squarely at the door of the South Yorkshire Police.
Having been able to carry out their investigations many years after the tragedy, in the relative calm, they have concluded that the Police were not only palpablyculpable on the day, but then conspired afterwards to deliberately deflect blame onto the Liverpool fans.

I still cannot help but surmise that this report is and has been weighed against the Police from day one. I say that because until yesterday I was unaware that those compiling it had apparently been in the company of the families of those who died throughout their study period?

Would it not have been fair to all concerned had they either have taken an equal amount of time to consult with all involved parties instead of the one pressure group? Had they done so, could their deliberations have led to a different conclusion?
Were the Police and the other agencies disadvantaged as a result?

[Sipowicz]

That offer of a lift to the airport still stands, just say when.

[Kerosene]

You obviously read all my above, plus the link, before you came out with your daft remark, Sipowicz?

PS: Do you really look like the guy in NYPD Blue? Little, fat and gobby?

[Sipowicz]

When you're in a hole, stop digging. Then you can start with the childish personal insults!

[Kerosene]

I sincerely hope you were looking in a mirror when you came out with your last remark, Sipo? Don't forget who started the 'childish remarks'? It wasn't me.

[Wharton]

Don't either of you pick a fight with me, I carry a brick in my handbag.

[Sipowicz]

A genuine offer, nothing childish (or insulting) about that!

[Kerosene]

No, I was expecting some serious replies to a serious subject and we get some drongo making the same level of 'contribution' he did yesterday - zilch.

[jno]

how much time did they spend with the police, then?

[Sipowicz]

Kerosene, re-read your thread from yesterday. Then maybe you can see how pathetic it makes you look. "I see no ships"

[Kerosene]

triggerhippy,

No disrespect to the investigation team, but 'professional people' could also include bricklayers, joiners, bus drivers, traffic wardens, construction workers, nurses, office workers etc, the type of person probably more likely to go to football matches than the Bishop of Liverpool, a human rights lawyer a investigative journalist and so on. How likely are any of those to be football fans for a start?

I'm quite sure that the professions I've mentioned would be not only more likely to have more football minded people in their ranks than those who made up the panel, but could also be more than capable of being 'independent'?

[Kerosene]

Sipo,

Honestly, I'm not here for a slanging match with you or anyone else, so if you can't contribute any worthwhile comments, why not seek out a more whimsical thread? - 'cos this ain't it.

Sensible comments only, please.

[Kerosene]

trigger,

Exactly, that's my point, isn't it? Do you think for one second that the vast majority of that panel are likely to have seen the inside of a football ground in their lives? I can't quite visualise the Bishop of Liverpool standing/sitting on The Kop belting out 'You'll Never Walk Alone' - could you?

[Kerosene]

trigger,

Please don't twist my words: I referred to 'the vast majority' of that panel, did I not?

[ichkeria]

"the type of person probably more likely to go to football matches than the Bishop of Liverpool, a human rights lawyer a investigative journalist and so on. How likely are any of those to be football fans for a start? "

Just as likely I'd have thought. Although you don't have to be a regular at a football match to spot a falsified police report.
I always thought the words to the Manic Street Preachers' "SYMM"" were a trifle hard hitting. Not so far from the truth after all, apparently ...

[Sipowicz]

I think Triggerhappy was being sarcastic Kerosene, or can't you see that either!

[Kerosene]

Firstly,

I wouldn't know the Manic Street Preachers from The Muppets, but I'll happily discuss most of Rossini's or Puccini's operas with you? Or even the operettas of Gilbert + Sullivan?

And as for football fans, it's a sport traditionally rooted in working class environments as opposed to intellectual think tanks - fact. The only difference nowadays is that many working class people can hardly afford the inflated prices demanded, but things hadn't reached that level in 1989 when this tragedy took place?

All I'm trying to say is that it should be 'horses for courses' - you wouldn't have the local roadsweeper hearing confessions or investigating a miscarriage of justice, would you? You get my drift - I hope?

No, why couldn't we have had a panel of the peers of those involved on that fateful day instead? From right across the board? It's all very well this panel apparently spending most of its investigative time with the families of the bereaved - no disrespect to their memory - but it doesn't conjure up a picture of outright neutrality and objectivity, does it?

And when all is said and done, notwithstanding the need to ty to get to the bottom of what actually happened and its subsequent ramifications, all parties involved in any 'independent inquiry' has not only to fit that bill but has to also be seen to.