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Should there now be another think?

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anotheoldgit | 15:35 Fri 03rd Jul 2009 | News
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/arti cle-1196946/He-led-Lieutenant-Colonel-killed-A fghanistan-highest-ranking-British-casualty-Fa lklands.html

"Be the best at school - then you won't have to join the army!"

I wonder what the family of the late Lieutenant Colonel Rupert Thorneloe, would think of this quote by jake-the-peg?

But I didn't really want to use this question by having a dig at jake, but it infuriates me every time he makes such statements.

No firstly I want to convey my condolences to Rupert's family at their time of great loss, just as I also want to convey my sympathies to Trooper Joshua Hammond's family, Joshua also died in the blast on Wednesday.

What is highlighted from these two sad and unnecessary deaths that our troops are fighting not only with one hand tied behind their backs but also with outdated and inferior equipment. Perhaps now that a most senior officer has been killed riding in one of these vehicles, something may get done. Why with all the use of the technical knowledge and expertise that we possess today, can't a vehicle be equipped with devises that seek out these home made bombs before men and vehicle approach them?

Interesting to note however that now a friend of Prince Charles has been killed, he will be writing personally to the family of his late friend, why didn't he do this for the families of the 170 lives that went before the Lieutenant Colonel, after all wasn't all these also fighting in the name of the Prince's Mother.

Who says there isn't a class structure in this country, even into death?





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Interesting to note however that now a friend of Prince Charles has been killed, he will be writing personally to the family of his late friend, why didn't he do this for the families of the 170 lives that went before the Lieutenant Colonel, after all wasn't all these also fighting in the name of the Prince's Mother.

I think you have answerer this in your first line: a friend has been killed

Prince Charles hasn't written presumably written to the others in the same way that I haven't or you haven't - despite the fact that they are fighting for 'our country'.
First off you can be the most sophisticated army in the world (ala USA) your still gonna get casualties! How could you possibly not in a war situation?

2nd How on earth would you detect a roadside bomb? It doesnt give off any signals? theres nothing for a device to search for?
AOG

I don't think that quote was by JTP. When he posted it he put it in quote marks and italicised it. He was conveying something which was told to him by another party, it wasn't something he had made up.

I take it are fighting not only with one hand tied behind their backs means we are following legal rules of engagement and not resorting to the savagery and barbarism of our enemy.

I should imagine, that the Prince of Wales will be writing in a personal capacity. Writing to bereaved family is not part of his duties, however, writing the family of a friend is something I hope we would all do.

We probably are ill equipped for this particular war. Our fighting machine was designed to fight the Russians and it does not adapt well to fight an urban guerilla war in the desert.

Needless to say, the whole adventure is misguided and without clear objectives.
My abiding memory of this will be that Prince Charles has commented because of the fact that one of the victims is a half colonel. Would we have heard anything at all from our monarch in waiting had both victims been "lowly squaddies"?

I mourn the death of all our service personnel killed in the line of duty, including Lt Col Thorneloe. But not because his death may be deemed more regrettable.

Prince Charles, it seems, takes a different stance to mine and, I would guess, to that of the majority in this country.
Old jug ears said...

The prince, who is colonel-in-chief of Lt Col Thorneloe's regiment the Welsh Guards, said the news of his death was "completely heartbreaking".

Prince Charles, who knew the officer, paid tribute to him during a visit to Cornwall. He said he had been "mortified" when he heard of the deaths.

"Having been colonel-in-chief of the Welsh Guards for the last 34 years, as you can imagine it is a wonderful family regiment and having been involved for those 34 years I've seen sons and grandsons go through the regiment.
"As you can imagine, the shock and horror that has affected the whole of the regiment family was quite dramatic.

"I was horrified to say the least about both deaths, Trooper Hammond as well. Having been to visit the Welsh Guards at Aldershot before they left to go to Afghanistan, having met the families and having met Col Rupert's wife, my heart is very much with them. It's completely heartbreaking. The whole battalion is suffering."
I stand by that.

Too many kids join the armed forces not because they think a particular fight is right and just

But because they don't have better options

And if my attitude makes you angry - I'll bet you're not half as angry as the familles of some of those who've died
And before you question that the average educational qualifications of an Army recruit is 0.9 GCSE at A-C

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200 405/cmselect/cmdfence/63/63we13.htm
jake:
I honestly fail to see your point regarding the educational shortcomings of so many Army recruits? Your "revelations" are meaningless.

For example, would an Oxbridge degree prevent or safeguard anyone from being blown to bits?

Would an impressive Mensa rating make them better soldiers?
Perhaps it would have given them the mental capacity to realise, by your inferences, that serving your country is a "mugs game" only to be carried out by those intellectually unfit for anything else?

I don't know what job or profession you do/have done, but it obviously isn't/hasn't been in the service of your country.

That's been done for you by these "thickos" instead. Aren't you lucky that National Service was discontinued? Or, maybe not, there would always have been the "Conscienscious Objector" card for the likes of you? "Cowardly Object" to the rest of us.
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Gromit

don't think that quote was by JTP. When he posted it he put it in quote marks and italicised it. He was conveying something which was told to him by another party, it wasn't something he had made up.

You know this for certain then do you, could you be one of the same person?

Regardless who first posted it, by the idle use of including someone else's quote, means that JTP or yourself even, agrees with it.

I take it are fighting not only with one hand tied behind their backs means we are following legal rules of engagement and not resorting to the savagery and barbarism of our enemy.

What a load of Guardian, hand wringing twaddle. A formal state of war has not been declared, and the Taliban have not signed the Geneva Convention, so the normal rules of war do not exist.

No, only the rules of engagement that are raised in a particular theatre of war, these change according to circumstances. In this war in particular we are instructed on the terms of winning hearts and minds, while in the process they are constantly blowing us to pieces.

I and any reasonable thinking person would say, 'whatever the enemy can dish out they should also be prepared to receive'.






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Very well said paraffin.
AOG

I am not bothered what the Taleban have signed and how they behave. I am bothered about what we do. To resort to the Taleban's savage and Barbarous behaviour ourselves would make us no better than they are.

We are there as Peacekeepers. Unfortunately our presence makes us targets.
I don't think it's that controversial to say that a great army recruits weren't great at school. They'd no doubt say as much themselves.

I also don't think it's controversial to suggest that this limited the career options open to them and affected their employability in other jobs.

It follows then that it's not necessarily bravery or patriotism that causes people to join up. Of course, for some soldiers, it is.
I don't think I'd want to go skiing with Wales, either.
Sweep2k:

Totally correct - not. Just take a look at the finely educated Honourable Members in Westminster? Their Oxbridge academic achievements have certainly convinced me that their particular talents would have been wasted as cannon fodder. If only.
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The Sherman

How on earth would you detect a roadside bomb? It doesnt give off any signals? theres nothing for a device to search for?

Well do I really have to lay out the basic principles of mine detecting? Please give me strength.

I am no expert but I am intelligent enough to work out a number of devices that could be used.

A bomb can be a robot type, by that I mean it is set off by the use a remote control.

It can be a device that can be set off by a trip wire.

It can be set off by exerting pressure upon it.

It can also be a timed device set of by a form of time device.

A simple metallic scan instrument can detect most, others could be detected and destroyed by satellite.

In WW2 they had a simple flaying device on the front of some tanks, these consisted of rotary chains flaying the ground in front.

It is not rocket science to have un-manned remote controlled vehicles ahead of the convoy.

Perhaps these methods would not prevent all devices from disastrously detonating, but there would be a vast reduction.
Question Author
Gromit

Old jug ears said..

Your sort just cannot help being rude, can you?

First learn to show respect before preaching your idealistic rubbish.
-- answer removed --
I asked one marine currently serving in Afhgan if Anotheoldgit was intelligent enough to work out how to detect mines and our survey said......

Idiot was the response i got.
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The Sherman

Always resort to insults and calling people names, when one has been made to look a fool and has lost an argument.

This type of tactic I left behind me many years ago in the school playground.

I won't tar your imaginary Marine friend with the same, because I respect all Marines Imaginary or not, even a friend of yours.
They should do the same as the Jews in Palestine have a child sat on a vehicle or walking in front of it. Blow us up and kill your own. Simples

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