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Is there an answer to the ever growing social underclass.

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R1Geezer | 16:20 Tue 09th Dec 2008 | News
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Highlighted recently by the Mathews case, what can be done about the whole swathe of society that have developed into a parasitical layer, an underclass, contributing nothing and living on an ever more generous benefits system. How can we get people away from the idea that you can make a career out of having children. What is the answer to the section of society that's only ambition is the aquisition of a life funded by the hard working tax payer? Where they have no aspirations for themselves and where their own children are largeky the tools by which the extract money from the state to maintain the standard lifestyle of fast food, fags and Booze. Is there no system where by this behaviour can be deterred? This is not a poitical rant but a real cross party issue. I think it's a problem that would take a generation to solve not a parliament of one colour or the other.

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One solution I think would work is to bring back the old system of dealing with the unemployed from the 60's/70's. In those days if you were unemployed and signing on you were offered a choice of 3 jobs. If you turned all 3 down, your benefits were stopped.
What about child benefit payable for say the first 4 children? If you want money for any subsequent children you may have- then get off ya arse and work for it like the majority of us have to!
Make it for the first 2 actually.

AOG suggested this and it's a good point in my opinion.
Nope because there isn't one single party who has the balls (and I don't mean Mr Ed) to go against those who think that every problem can be solved just by throwing money at it.
I remember those times well Mrs Overall. I worked in a job centre in the early 80's and spent lots of time matching people to jobs and phoning employers to arrange interviews. We used to have to question people quite thoroughly that turned down offers of jobs. That's all disappeared now, job centres just have the jobs on computers for people to look at if they wish!!
I saw this being blamed on the switch from paying benefits to the male ( wasted on booze & betting) to the female - wallet to purse as they say.
I cant say that I agree this is the cause or that reversing this will make any difference.
Main reason for single parentage was mothers with young children being raised to the top of the housing list.
Another solution would be to issue them with vouchers, instead of cash.
The vouchers could only be used to buy food/utilitiy payments/clothes and could NOT be spent on
Cigs
Booze
Plasma TV's
PC's
The latest mobile phone
Petrol
Cars
Etc etc
Even the vouchers are open to abuse Mrs O. We currently have a Sure Start Voucher system in operation which is supposed to be used for powdered baby milk, ordinary milk and fruit and veggies for people with children on benefits and limited income. The amount of young mothers I've served who come in with newborns and are using the vouchers to buy spuds and longlife UHT milk is unbelievable- how much of that is going the newborn's way?
Benfits pegged just below what one would earn for working a full week on the minimum wage.

We have an absurd situation where people can 'earn' more on benefits than they can by working.

Until this absurdity is stopped, the long term useless will continue to ponce off the rest of us.
So you think if you take money away from the poorest people in this coutnry that will somehow help?

you don't think that if you had a child and were pennyless then you might oh i dont know.... turn to stealing to feed your child?
While i dont have the answers taking benefits away from people is definately not the answer!

For example with all the job losses that are about to happen would you deny all them benefits? -im sure most would say no
so what laws would you put in place that would say some people are ok to have benefits?

Also your same laws would state that the poorest people in our country- the ones that most need it arent allowed it?

Most people want to work otherwsie our country wouldn't be great at all. the people who live on benefits don't live half as good a life as I do and I should know as I was brought up on benefits! I couldn't bear the drop in money so it wont be me on benfits.
I wonder who in the above thread has ever lived on benefits for say 6 months or more?

If not where does their view of what it's like come from?
Yes I have Jake. But there are those who see benefits as a way of not having to do a thing for your money.
One Karen Mattews springs to mind.
My son and daughter work hard for what they get yet a lot of their friends do nothing and still get paid just a little less than they do and don't have to pay for eye tests and persciptions and so.
These are the underclass I think the thread is aimed at.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
my view.. when you first make a claim you get paid for your family unit. if you choose to have any more kids after that, you don't get more benefits.

there's a state in the US that uses the phrase, "the first one is on us, the others are on you" or something like!

I didn't get a pay rise when I had my kids, nor was a moved to a bigger house.
Thats very true Sara. You don't get a pay rise when you have more kids. But don't you get tax relief or something like that.
Thats why single people pay more tax than marrieds with children?
Oh c'mon Jake the Peg, you're honestly telling me you don't know of a 'Karen Matthews' near you? OK, whilst most of these ******** baby breeders aren't going as far as kidnapping their children for extra cash, they all seem to have a jolly decent life, whilt churning out these future Wayne and Waynetta Slobs.
oooer, starred out word was f�ckless.
Never had the chance of living on benefits for more than six months personally, Jake. Whenever we have fallen on hard times somehow we haven't qualified for benefit because we own our own home, haven't got enough children, etc. etc., so we have had to find jobs, any jobs.

But I can't imagine anybody on this thread not knowing of a 'family' like the Matthews!! They are not exactly rare are they!!

Benefits are not abused by most people, but there are a fair few that see benefits as their right and do quite nicely thank you!! They seeem to have far more spare cash than I have ever had.
Hear hear Lottie!
In a one word simple answer, EUGENICS

http://www.eugenics.net/

I've always believed, that the State doesn't ask people to have children, so I think, if a date is set, sometime in the future, Child benefit shoud be scrapped.

I know this is a highly contentious issue, and yes, my wife was a recipiant, but I really do think it should be stopped.

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