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Halifax 'Inclusion' Policy Sets Twitface On Fire ... Again ..
104 Answers
News followers may be aware of the latest furor about 'inclusion', this time involving the Halifax Bank.
The bank has decided to offer name badges to its employees with pronouns to advise their preferred pronoun address -
https:/
The badges are voluntary.
The company advises that this is about inclusivity, and ensuring that no-one is accidentally 'mis-gender identified'.
It also advises that anyone who does not agree with the policy is welcome to take their business elsewhere.
I feel that a simple reality check may be in order here.
I have been a Halifax customer for over thirty years, and in that time, as in every other walk of my life, I have never 'mis-gender-identified' anyone, probably because I am capable of telling the difference between a man and a woman in any social or professional setting where it matters - and personal in-branch banking interaction has never been one of them.
So I remain bemused but utterly disinterested in the notion that an employee thinks that their gender identity is important enough to me that they need to identify it via a badge on their front.
But, and this is where I am seriously bent out of shape -
If the company pushing this nonsense wants to confirm its 'inclusivity' by terminally excluding me if I choose not to agree with its policy, then I feel seriously motivated to take them up on their offer and move my account elsewhere.
They seem to forget, they are a service industry, and I can take my account anywhere I choose any day i fancy, and it's surely in their interests to ensure that I stay, not to push me away with their snotty 'my way or the highway' approach to my embracing their latest woke piffle.
I conduct my business without the need even to know the name of the person I am dealing with, and I have yet to feel the need to know which 'pronoun' they prefer to be addressed by.
I am all for inclusivity, but not when it only includes people who see the world their way, that is not my definition of the term, and I am not interested in dealing with an organsation that thinks it has a right to dictate my views on its staff policies.
Any thoughts?
The bank has decided to offer name badges to its employees with pronouns to advise their preferred pronoun address -
https:/
The badges are voluntary.
The company advises that this is about inclusivity, and ensuring that no-one is accidentally 'mis-gender identified'.
It also advises that anyone who does not agree with the policy is welcome to take their business elsewhere.
I feel that a simple reality check may be in order here.
I have been a Halifax customer for over thirty years, and in that time, as in every other walk of my life, I have never 'mis-gender-identified' anyone, probably because I am capable of telling the difference between a man and a woman in any social or professional setting where it matters - and personal in-branch banking interaction has never been one of them.
So I remain bemused but utterly disinterested in the notion that an employee thinks that their gender identity is important enough to me that they need to identify it via a badge on their front.
But, and this is where I am seriously bent out of shape -
If the company pushing this nonsense wants to confirm its 'inclusivity' by terminally excluding me if I choose not to agree with its policy, then I feel seriously motivated to take them up on their offer and move my account elsewhere.
They seem to forget, they are a service industry, and I can take my account anywhere I choose any day i fancy, and it's surely in their interests to ensure that I stay, not to push me away with their snotty 'my way or the highway' approach to my embracing their latest woke piffle.
I conduct my business without the need even to know the name of the person I am dealing with, and I have yet to feel the need to know which 'pronoun' they prefer to be addressed by.
I am all for inclusivity, but not when it only includes people who see the world their way, that is not my definition of the term, and I am not interested in dealing with an organsation that thinks it has a right to dictate my views on its staff policies.
Any thoughts?
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bednobs - // i still fail to understand your tizzy about this.
How often do you conduct your business in branch anyway? //
I probably visit my branch on average once a fortnight.
But again, to be clear, my issue is not with the woke nonsense of 'mis-gendering', which I dispute as even being a verb, rather than a woke invention.
My issue is with the high-handed advice that if I don't like it, I can go away.
That is not my interpretation of the term 'inclusion' on any day of the week.
// Also interested to know how you know you've NEVER mis-gendered anyone in your life //
How do you 'mis-gender' someone? I am perfectly able to recognise the difference between a woman and a man, and have been doing so for almost all my life.
If someone wishes to present themselves in a sufficiently ambiguous way that the average person interacting with them is genuinely unable to determine their gender, then that is a matter for them to consider, because personal presentation is an individual choice, and the individual must accept the responses to that presentation, because that is how our society works.
How often do you conduct your business in branch anyway? //
I probably visit my branch on average once a fortnight.
But again, to be clear, my issue is not with the woke nonsense of 'mis-gendering', which I dispute as even being a verb, rather than a woke invention.
My issue is with the high-handed advice that if I don't like it, I can go away.
That is not my interpretation of the term 'inclusion' on any day of the week.
// Also interested to know how you know you've NEVER mis-gendered anyone in your life //
How do you 'mis-gender' someone? I am perfectly able to recognise the difference between a woman and a man, and have been doing so for almost all my life.
If someone wishes to present themselves in a sufficiently ambiguous way that the average person interacting with them is genuinely unable to determine their gender, then that is a matter for them to consider, because personal presentation is an individual choice, and the individual must accept the responses to that presentation, because that is how our society works.
bednobs - // you yourself wrote it as "It also advises that anyone who does not agree with the policy is welcome to take their business elsewhere." but also say "They are not saying "You are welcome to take your business elsewhere whenever you feel like it ..."
but it seems like that IS what they said //
I think you are missing the point here, possibly deliberately.
The concept of a customer taking their business elsewhere is one of the joys of the free market ecconomy in which we live.
But how many businesses do you think would survive, if every time they changed their business policies, they told each customer to go away if they didn't agree with it - given that the average customer (including me in this instance) would not care less one way or the other.
but it seems like that IS what they said //
I think you are missing the point here, possibly deliberately.
The concept of a customer taking their business elsewhere is one of the joys of the free market ecconomy in which we live.
But how many businesses do you think would survive, if every time they changed their business policies, they told each customer to go away if they didn't agree with it - given that the average customer (including me in this instance) would not care less one way or the other.
"My issue is with the high-handed advice that if I don't like it, I can go away"
they are just reminding you of your rights. Like all advice, it's up to you whether you take it or not. Perhaps if you linked to the actual tweet that's got you knickers knotted, people can judge for themselves whether it's high-handed or not. It's pretty hard to argue when i cant see what particular thing has boiled your pee.
they are just reminding you of your rights. Like all advice, it's up to you whether you take it or not. Perhaps if you linked to the actual tweet that's got you knickers knotted, people can judge for themselves whether it's high-handed or not. It's pretty hard to argue when i cant see what particular thing has boiled your pee.
"personal presentation is an individual choice, and the individual must accept the responses to that presentation"
If that presentation were not obvious to you but the wearing of a badge making it clear the pronouns to be used removed that doubt, would that not be a good thing?
Would you respect that person by using the requested pronouns on the badge?
If that presentation were not obvious to you but the wearing of a badge making it clear the pronouns to be used removed that doubt, would that not be a good thing?
Would you respect that person by using the requested pronouns on the badge?
"I think you are missing the point here, possibly deliberately."
im honestly not doing it deliberate;y, promise. from my POV from what you have written, it's akin to someone saying "why is your policy that your telly's are £100 dearer than your rival in place" and the company responding "if you want to buy from our competitor you are welcome to"
im honestly not doing it deliberate;y, promise. from my POV from what you have written, it's akin to someone saying "why is your policy that your telly's are £100 dearer than your rival in place" and the company responding "if you want to buy from our competitor you are welcome to"
I have asked a question on here several times - almost everytime people get outraged about how people who are gay or want to be recognised as a different gender hits the news.
' would you be this upset if it was a member of your family who felt this way'
I have yet to get a response from the outraged!
' would you be this upset if it was a member of your family who felt this way'
I have yet to get a response from the outraged!
Corby - // "personal presentation is an individual choice, and the individual must accept the responses to that presentation"
// If that presentation were not obvious to you but the wearing of a badge making it clear the pronouns to be used removed that doubt, would that not be a good thing? //
Yes.
// Would you respect that person by using the requested pronouns on the badge? //
Yes.
But that's not what I am cross about, as you wilfully seem keen on ignoring.
If people are sufficiently self-important that they want to be sure that everyone does not 'mis-gender' them, that is highly unlikely to impact on my business interface with them, since I would consider using the first name of someone I don't know (advertised by a badge) as impolite.
I would consider them to be amusingly self-obsessed, but yes, I would not disrespect anyone intentionally without provocation, I would never do that.
Would I accept them telling me that if i don't agree with their company policy with regard to this buffoonery i can go elsewhere?
No I would not, and again i stress, this is the point I am making, and if you check national media, you will see I am far from alone in that.
// If that presentation were not obvious to you but the wearing of a badge making it clear the pronouns to be used removed that doubt, would that not be a good thing? //
Yes.
// Would you respect that person by using the requested pronouns on the badge? //
Yes.
But that's not what I am cross about, as you wilfully seem keen on ignoring.
If people are sufficiently self-important that they want to be sure that everyone does not 'mis-gender' them, that is highly unlikely to impact on my business interface with them, since I would consider using the first name of someone I don't know (advertised by a badge) as impolite.
I would consider them to be amusingly self-obsessed, but yes, I would not disrespect anyone intentionally without provocation, I would never do that.
Would I accept them telling me that if i don't agree with their company policy with regard to this buffoonery i can go elsewhere?
No I would not, and again i stress, this is the point I am making, and if you check national media, you will see I am far from alone in that.
The main thing that annoyed me in all of this is the sheer arrogance of informing customers that if they don't like it they can take their custom elsewhere ! Just another blip in the death knell of so called customer service which was a given at one time, but now in this modern, media obsessed world where absolutely anything goes, businesses no longer feel it necessary to put the customer first, well at least in this instance the Halifax don't. I find it, amongst other things, depressing.
but how is someone wearing a badge affect you?
Halifax are saying that they are accommodating staff who wish to wear a badge identifying how they wish to be called.
Some people dislike people calling themselves by anything else than she/he, Halifax are simply saying if you don't like it you have the ability to go elsewhere.
Halifax are saying that they are accommodating staff who wish to wear a badge identifying how they wish to be called.
Some people dislike people calling themselves by anything else than she/he, Halifax are simply saying if you don't like it you have the ability to go elsewhere.
Redhelen - // I have asked a question on here several times - almost everytime people get outraged about how people who are gay or want to be recognised as a different gender hits the news.
' would you be this upset if it was a member of your family who felt this way'
I have yet to get a response from the outraged! //
Firstly, I am not 'outraged' by anyone being gay, and I am not 'outraged' by this situation, merely annoyed at being patronised by a woke stranger.
I am not sure what your point is about anyone, a member of my family or not, 'feeling this way'.
This issue is not about anyone 'feeling' any way at all.
It's about the Halifax feeling the need to pander to the imagined sensitivities of an extremely small proportion of its workforce by trumpeting its woke credentials with a meaningless, but voluntary, campaign to wear 'gender-identity' badges.
Were a member of my family gay, and indulging in this utterly nonsensical self-aggranaising and attention-seeking puffery, and the subject came up, I would offer my view that feeling the need to be 'gender-identified' in a workplace environment by strangers indicates that their job choice has been unsuitable for their sensitivities, and they would be better finding a job where interaction with the public is not involved.
' would you be this upset if it was a member of your family who felt this way'
I have yet to get a response from the outraged! //
Firstly, I am not 'outraged' by anyone being gay, and I am not 'outraged' by this situation, merely annoyed at being patronised by a woke stranger.
I am not sure what your point is about anyone, a member of my family or not, 'feeling this way'.
This issue is not about anyone 'feeling' any way at all.
It's about the Halifax feeling the need to pander to the imagined sensitivities of an extremely small proportion of its workforce by trumpeting its woke credentials with a meaningless, but voluntary, campaign to wear 'gender-identity' badges.
Were a member of my family gay, and indulging in this utterly nonsensical self-aggranaising and attention-seeking puffery, and the subject came up, I would offer my view that feeling the need to be 'gender-identified' in a workplace environment by strangers indicates that their job choice has been unsuitable for their sensitivities, and they would be better finding a job where interaction with the public is not involved.
Redhelen - // Halifax are simply saying if you don't like it you have the ability to go elsewhere. //
No, they are not, and that is my point.
The notion that i can go elsewhere is as obvious as telling me that the sun rose this morning - I know, I don't need to be told.
The company - or more accurately its idiot employee - is making it clear that if I don't like it, i can do one, and go elsewhere.
I am aware of that too - but it is offensive for a business to tell me that fact, when implying that my hostility (which is actually utter indifference) to its woke nonsense, makes me an unwelcome customer of theirs.
No, they are not, and that is my point.
The notion that i can go elsewhere is as obvious as telling me that the sun rose this morning - I know, I don't need to be told.
The company - or more accurately its idiot employee - is making it clear that if I don't like it, i can do one, and go elsewhere.
I am aware of that too - but it is offensive for a business to tell me that fact, when implying that my hostility (which is actually utter indifference) to its woke nonsense, makes me an unwelcome customer of theirs.
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