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Good To See Another Outbreak Of Common Sense.......

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ToraToraTora | 15:31 Tue 27th Jul 2021 | News
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https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-michael-gove-drops-strong-hint-that-vaccine-passports-will-be-needed-for-football-matches-12365542
It's time we took the plunge and declared all establishments over a certain size will need proof of vaccination.

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Requiring people to take a test all the time is simply impractical going forward. , I think it’s been shown that there’s sufficient inhibition of the virus by the vaccine to make the risk worth it.
16:17 Tue 27th Jul 2021
I'm wary to because it seems like its going to cause too much inconvenience and those who want to get round it will find away either by using fake details or just pushing there way in like for the Euros Final.
But am not sure why some people think its a slippery slope to a totalatarian state. Why would goverments benefit from this. If they really want to they have all are health records anyway
Its a slippery slope because once something is in place it is pretty much always extended. So while this is to stop people going into large venues, what if the next is Pubs and then supermarkets and then hospitals?

Also at the moment it is supposedly for the COVID-19 Vaccine (although I would argue these are not really vaccines in the normal use of the word as it does not provide immunity) but who is to say it will stop there. Easy to then move onto something else like political belief and minor criminal records.

And that is the real problem, when you start it is not difficult to see a situation where papers are demanded or certain sections are isolated from the community (Remember yellow stars). Whilst I am not saying this is the current intention you never know what is around the corner, I am sure the Germans had no idea what Adolf was going to do when he did it.
/// I am sure the Germans had no idea what Adolf was going to do when he did it. ///

Scaremongering ?

No, not at all, things in this country have been echoing Thirties Germany for too long already. Time to throw off the cloak of complacency and expose how seemingly good intention laws are abused by the State (e.g. Prevention of Terrorism Act). I'm not saying the laws aren't needed, but they must not be allowed to be abused .
What do you meant exactly by "not really vaccines in the normal use of the word as it does not provide immunity"? There are some differences between, say, the Pfizer, Moderna, and AZ vaccines, and what might be regarded as more traditional "inactivated virus" vaccines such as SinoVac, but the end product is still that the body is stimulated to produce antibodies that act against Covid. I'm not sure what practical definition of immunity exists that excludes these from being vaccines.
Sorry youngmafbog. Just dont get your concern. Its a minor piece of info of no use to the goverment in terms of control. They (and Google/or phones and HMRC and credit refrence agencies) allready hold far more important info
Thats fair enough Bobb, maybe you trust politicians more than I do. I dont trust them one inch.

Although I think you have missed the point. Yes, of course they have the information on us it is using that information in the form of an ID to prevent people from going about their lawful business. Which is what this 'minor' piece of legislation is proposing. The wording would need to be scrutinised to the nth degree.

//Scaremongering ?//

No, just showing an extreme example of what can and does happen. Like I say I doubt the German people foresaw this happening just like we today have no clue about who will come into power in the future.



//I don't agree that this would be the start of any slippery slope or mission creep,…//

Google and Facebook announced today that anybody who works for them must be double vaccinated before being allowed to return to work in the office:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/google-facebook-to-require-vaccinations-for-office-workers-01627512599

Then there’s this:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/when-next-travel-green-list-review-what-expect-amber-plus-rules-watchlist-b947721.html

“A Downing Street source told The Times: ‘In autumn vaccine passports could become an important tool that will allow us to keep things open.’ ”

//Its a minor piece of info of no use to the goverment in terms of control.//

I don’t think you quite get the point, bob. The government already knows who has had the vaccine and who has not (well, near enough, if you discount the activities of the “vaccine hubs” which briefly opened to give the shots to anybody who turned up, no identification required). What is being discussed here is the fact that people are being told they will be required to undergo a medical procedure and produce proof of it in order to undertake everyday activities.

The government should put the issue before Parliament in a way that makes it clear that vaccination is ‘de facto’ compulsory. Saying that it isn’t but allowing unvaccinated people to be denied access to everyday activities is dishonest. Parliament should decide whether it is legal or not to deny unvaccinated people access to premises and services.
NJ //Parliament should decide whether it is legal or not to deny unvaccinated people access to premises and service//
I thain they are leaving that decision to landlords and business owners to decide.
//I thain they are leaving that decision to landlords and business owners to decide.//

Yes I know, Danny. And they shouldn't. People in this country should not be compelled to undergo a medical procedure in order to gain access to basic services. It is discriminatory to do so. If Parliament wants to allow that the matter should be put before it and not allowed on the whim of a supermarket manager or pub landlord.
No passport / no mask. The old normal must prevail.
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judge: "If Parliament wants to allow that the matter should be put before it and not allowed on the whim of a supermarket manager or pub landlord. " - it's already the case that they can refuse service anyway and they don't even have to say why.
Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett claimed Delta patients carry 1000 times the viral load than the novel corona virus that caused the pandemic, which is a cause for concern, and we can see the route the Israeli government is mandating:



//...it's already the case that they can refuse service anyway and they don't even have to say why.//

That's quite true. But they cannot discriminate against groups of people with "protected characteristics." Whilst I know that being unvaccinated is not currently a protected characteristic, the government should legislate to make it so. You should not face discrimination on the basis of which medical procedures you have or have not undergone and you should certainly not have to carry papers around with you proving your purity.

It's simple enough - if the government believes this is the way to go then let them put it to Parliament. If the majority of MPs vote for it I'll accept it but it should not be allowed to develop by stealth.
Lovely to agree with canary 09.21. This question makes interesting alliances.
^^^^ P. S. regarding some above points. I have already met (waiting
at the local P.O.) and had a chat to a young man who works as a carer. He is looking for another job - does not want to be forced into a vaccine. He's 25 and at no real danger from Covid - and he is aggrieved at feeling forced into something.
Haaaa. I was at a festival with 80k people last weekend. Stable doors / horses!
jim30 : "What do you meant exactly by "not really vaccines in the normal use of the word as it does not provide immunity"? There are some differences between, say, the Pfizer, Moderna, and AZ vaccines, and what might be regarded as more traditional "inactivated virus "

You did not mention live attenuated vaccines, which are sterilizing vaccines, which the UK administered covid vaccines are not. They are non-sterilizing immunizations.

"The biology of human immunity is incredibly complex, it is relatively well understood for certain viruses—polio, measles, mumps, and chicken pox—that generate sterilizing immunity after infection."

Some people think it a 'wonder' at the speed these mRNA vaccines for this novel corona virus were produced, but it is at least since 2004 that researchers were specifically producing mRNA spike protein vaccines, and indeed Fauci's own National Institutes of Health(NIH) conducting the research.

"In making the NIAID vaccine, researchers modified the fragment of viral DNA to minimize the risk that it could combine with the SARS virus or other coronaviruses, the NIAID said." - Dec 14, 2004

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2004/12/niaid-starts-first-us-human-trial-sars-vaccine

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2004/03/sars-vaccine-works-well-mice-niaid-says

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/e89cbef5-70d5-4555-89a9-32f2402dd1aa/SARS2parentsReview_CoueyJJ.pdf
There is much potential civil fragmentation danger in the way things are heading:

https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/30/anti-virus-pass-demo-invades-italian-parliament

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