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Just How Long Are People Going To Put Up With This?
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People who queued for two hours after driving 20 miles to get milk from a farm's vending machine have been fined for breaching lockdown rules.
“All of Wales remains under level four "stay at home" lockdown rules, with people only allowed to travel for essential reasons, which include buying food.
Welsh Government guidance on the rules say there are "no limits on how far" people can travel to shop for essential items,…”
I haven't fully digested the Welsh legislation but from the above passage it seems, once again, police are issuing fixed penalties when no law has been broken.
People who queued for two hours after driving 20 miles to get milk from a farm's vending machine have been fined for breaching lockdown rules.
“All of Wales remains under level four "stay at home" lockdown rules, with people only allowed to travel for essential reasons, which include buying food.
Welsh Government guidance on the rules say there are "no limits on how far" people can travel to shop for essential items,…”
I haven't fully digested the Welsh legislation but from the above passage it seems, once again, police are issuing fixed penalties when no law has been broken.
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My nearest shop (2 miles) sells (at vastly inflated prices) things such as dustbin bags etc.. It is also a newsagents and, for 8 hours per week, a very part-time post office with limited services. Nearest small supermarket is 7 miles away and I use that. Sometimes I have to go further (9 miles) to a larger store.
All this seems to have transcended common sense. If people are saved from going 'stir crazy' by a pleasant country drive to get (doubtless good quality) milk then why shouldn't they? They should obey distancing measures at their destination. The law does not forbid them. Guidance is just that. The law is very different from the guidance and this policeman was out of order. I am lucky and have farm milk delivered in bottles - not everyone is so fortunate.
All this seems to have transcended common sense. If people are saved from going 'stir crazy' by a pleasant country drive to get (doubtless good quality) milk then why shouldn't they? They should obey distancing measures at their destination. The law does not forbid them. Guidance is just that. The law is very different from the guidance and this policeman was out of order. I am lucky and have farm milk delivered in bottles - not everyone is so fortunate.
Perhaps we just need nice, clear rules like they've got in Italy?
My friends, who live there, can't leave their house at all until they've filled in a form beforehand, stating the reason why, which must be shown to the police if they get stopped. They can't travel out of their immediate locality unless, say, they've got a medical appointment further away. If they're going shopping, they can only use the supermarket closest to them. Face masks have to be worn at all times when they're away from their home, other than in very specific circumstances. (My friend is currently trying to contest a €400 fine for very briefly being without a mask on the street).
Some may love it, some may loathe it. But at least the rules are fairly clear cut.
My friends, who live there, can't leave their house at all until they've filled in a form beforehand, stating the reason why, which must be shown to the police if they get stopped. They can't travel out of their immediate locality unless, say, they've got a medical appointment further away. If they're going shopping, they can only use the supermarket closest to them. Face masks have to be worn at all times when they're away from their home, other than in very specific circumstances. (My friend is currently trying to contest a €400 fine for very briefly being without a mask on the street).
Some may love it, some may loathe it. But at least the rules are fairly clear cut.
30 different people from a town of 25000 each decide to drive 20 miles and arrive simultaneously at a farm at 11:30 pm - interesting time and timing.
The fact that a police officer was even there at that time, at that remote location, is perhaps a sign that they'd had a tip-off that something was afoot.
Definitely more to this story ...
The fact that a police officer was even there at that time, at that remote location, is perhaps a sign that they'd had a tip-off that something was afoot.
Definitely more to this story ...
Much as I wouldn't like that, Chris, I think I may prefer it because people (and the police) know exactly what's what. Of course it would fall over here because immediately those who cannot read or write will say they are suffering discrimination.
The vast majority of people are doing their best to comply. Some are not and I don't think that making the rules any stricter will alter their behaviour. But many of those who are doing their best to comply are being harried and hassled by police officers who are either not aware of the law or who are being encouraged to act beyond it. I have my suspicions which it is but that's not for this question.
I support the rule of law but I don't like to see police officers acting beyond their powers. The day that becomes acceptable "for the greater good", whatever the situation, will be the day this country begins to slide down a slippery slope. There are enough "temporary" measures and changes which look like they may become permanent. Police officers acting unlawfully is not one that should be accepted.
The vast majority of people are doing their best to comply. Some are not and I don't think that making the rules any stricter will alter their behaviour. But many of those who are doing their best to comply are being harried and hassled by police officers who are either not aware of the law or who are being encouraged to act beyond it. I have my suspicions which it is but that's not for this question.
I support the rule of law but I don't like to see police officers acting beyond their powers. The day that becomes acceptable "for the greater good", whatever the situation, will be the day this country begins to slide down a slippery slope. There are enough "temporary" measures and changes which look like they may become permanent. Police officers acting unlawfully is not one that should be accepted.
Ellipsis
// 11:30 interesting time and timing //
Not really. All the large supermarkets in Rhyl are shut by 11pm. If someone working in say Chester finishes their shift at 10pm, then getting milk from the farm on their journey to Rhyl is perfectly explainable. 30 is not a massive number and it it not clear if there were 30 people there at once, or over a 15-30 minute period.
Perhaps it is a failing of my imagination, but why didn’t the Police nab them when they were actually doing something illegal after buying their milk? Dogging, raving, drug fuelled orgies - not buying a bottle of green top.
// 11:30 interesting time and timing //
Not really. All the large supermarkets in Rhyl are shut by 11pm. If someone working in say Chester finishes their shift at 10pm, then getting milk from the farm on their journey to Rhyl is perfectly explainable. 30 is not a massive number and it it not clear if there were 30 people there at once, or over a 15-30 minute period.
Perhaps it is a failing of my imagination, but why didn’t the Police nab them when they were actually doing something illegal after buying their milk? Dogging, raving, drug fuelled orgies - not buying a bottle of green top.
Ellipsis, my feeling is that roaming through the night looking for illegal raves to suppress is hard work. Reading a newspaper story saying "We're having a lot of success selling milk all night at our automat" makes life a lot easier: just go there and wait - pretty much what they might do outside a country pub if any were open - until you see something illegal.
I don't like the idea of fools spreading Covid around more than anyuone else does. All the same, I'm not clear that anyone in the story was doing that. If they were just queuing up outside a shop for something, as I do myself at Sainsbury's late at night if I have to, isn't on the face of it dangerous, and it's a reasonable distance if there's nothing closer.
Maybe they were on their way to a rave, milk in hand. But nobody's said so. They were fined for going to a milk bar.
I don't like the idea of fools spreading Covid around more than anyuone else does. All the same, I'm not clear that anyone in the story was doing that. If they were just queuing up outside a shop for something, as I do myself at Sainsbury's late at night if I have to, isn't on the face of it dangerous, and it's a reasonable distance if there's nothing closer.
Maybe they were on their way to a rave, milk in hand. But nobody's said so. They were fined for going to a milk bar.
The thinking behind the rules on shopping under Covid is that you should only buy essential items such as food that you need.
The reality is that everything is shut except supermarkets, so people go everyday (to break up the monotony) and the majority of their shop is not essential.
Hundreds of people milling around and mingling at the tills. All day, 7 days a week.
Apparently to some, this is being sensible and a good citizen.
The reality is that everything is shut except supermarkets, so people go everyday (to break up the monotony) and the majority of their shop is not essential.
Hundreds of people milling around and mingling at the tills. All day, 7 days a week.
Apparently to some, this is being sensible and a good citizen.
//The thinking behind the rules on shopping under Covid is that you should only buy essential items such as food that you need.//
That may be the thinking. But it isn't the law. The law is that you can buy goods and obtain services from places that are allowed to remain open. You can buy whatever they sell, "essential" (whatever that might mean) or not. The difficulty with the thinking is defining what is essential. That's probably why it isn't the law. I think Wales tried it and it didn't work very well. But it didn't stop police at the beginning of "Lockdown One" examining the contents of shopper's bags to check for "non-essential" items. Until they were quickly told that wasn't within their powers, that is.
That may be the thinking. But it isn't the law. The law is that you can buy goods and obtain services from places that are allowed to remain open. You can buy whatever they sell, "essential" (whatever that might mean) or not. The difficulty with the thinking is defining what is essential. That's probably why it isn't the law. I think Wales tried it and it didn't work very well. But it didn't stop police at the beginning of "Lockdown One" examining the contents of shopper's bags to check for "non-essential" items. Until they were quickly told that wasn't within their powers, that is.
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