Quizzes & Puzzles8 mins ago
Have A Covid Jab And Don’t Die
Apparently that is not enough. We have to be told by a beloved celebrity.
So who would tip the balance for you to have the vaccine?
Is it Ant or is it Dec? Timmy Mallet or Macca Pacca?
Who would persuade you to be vaccinated ?
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So who would tip the balance for you to have the vaccine?
Is it Ant or is it Dec? Timmy Mallet or Macca Pacca?
Who would persuade you to be vaccinated ?
https:/
Answers
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That's why I understand people being apprehensive... Jim and prudie...
Sunk, although I pretty much agree with you, you are making it sound much more straightforward than it probably is. Vaccines are given to healthy people and may bring a slight risk. Everyone getting a vaccine, statistically, wouldn't necessarily have gone on to die from covid (we just don't know which...).
I just have a question about the trials, if theprof, or anyone else knows.... presumably when volunteers have been vaccinated, they then need to be deliberately exposed to covid. How is that done? Do they still need to wear masks, social distance, etc? I have seen figures on how many volunteers had which vaccinations and those of how many did/ did not contract covid after, but not what the instructions were for them.
Sunk, although I pretty much agree with you, you are making it sound much more straightforward than it probably is. Vaccines are given to healthy people and may bring a slight risk. Everyone getting a vaccine, statistically, wouldn't necessarily have gone on to die from covid (we just don't know which...).
I just have a question about the trials, if theprof, or anyone else knows.... presumably when volunteers have been vaccinated, they then need to be deliberately exposed to covid. How is that done? Do they still need to wear masks, social distance, etc? I have seen figures on how many volunteers had which vaccinations and those of how many did/ did not contract covid after, but not what the instructions were for them.
Prudie. I haven't read every post so you may have had an answer.
However, this is not an "entirely new virus" - it's a coronavirus (of which there are many) and directly related to the SARS and MERS viruses. A lot of the work in producing the Covid vaccine was already well underway on the basis that a dangerous coronavirus variant would arrive at some time - it was then just a case of 'tweaking' the vaccine to work for Covid19.
The speed was also because the usual restraints of money and resources were suddenly no longer relevant - rather than any 'rushing' of development or testing.
If you are still worried then research the people at Oxford and read their explanations, especially that of Sarah Gilbert.
However, this is not an "entirely new virus" - it's a coronavirus (of which there are many) and directly related to the SARS and MERS viruses. A lot of the work in producing the Covid vaccine was already well underway on the basis that a dangerous coronavirus variant would arrive at some time - it was then just a case of 'tweaking' the vaccine to work for Covid19.
The speed was also because the usual restraints of money and resources were suddenly no longer relevant - rather than any 'rushing' of development or testing.
If you are still worried then research the people at Oxford and read their explanations, especially that of Sarah Gilbert.
Woofgang,
// so you have no evidence of this? //
No, pure conjecture.
Which is why I couched it in terms of “ That might not mean”, “Perhaps in future” and “But it is a gamble”.
One of the four vaccines might beat Corona. But it will take several months for everyone to be immunised and only then we can see if it has been effective.
// so you have no evidence of this? //
No, pure conjecture.
Which is why I couched it in terms of “ That might not mean”, “Perhaps in future” and “But it is a gamble”.
One of the four vaccines might beat Corona. But it will take several months for everyone to be immunised and only then we can see if it has been effective.
Pixie - "presumably when volunteers have been vaccinated, they then need to be deliberately exposed to covid" - that's not how the trials worked. What you are describing is a 'challenge' trial which would not have been ethical in these trials of a vaccine for an illness which can kill.
People were vaccinated (or placeboed) and simply then carried on their normal lives - becoming infected (or not) by the usual chances of accidental exposure.
It is possible that 'challenge' trials may now be used to further refine the estimates of vaccine efficacy - but that is a matter for Government approval - not the pharma companies alone.
People were vaccinated (or placeboed) and simply then carried on their normal lives - becoming infected (or not) by the usual chances of accidental exposure.
It is possible that 'challenge' trials may now be used to further refine the estimates of vaccine efficacy - but that is a matter for Government approval - not the pharma companies alone.
Compulsory vaccination is undesirable and damn near impossible in any civilised society - full stop.
But restricting the lives of the deliberately unvaccinated for the safety of the rest of the population seems not only possible, but even desirable in some scenarios - I wouldn't want to be in the confined environment of a full aeroplane with even a few refuseniks on board.
But restricting the lives of the deliberately unvaccinated for the safety of the rest of the population seems not only possible, but even desirable in some scenarios - I wouldn't want to be in the confined environment of a full aeroplane with even a few refuseniks on board.
Thank you, dave.... and yes, if people were still taking the usual precautions, that doesn't really give me confidence in the stats... as those people volunteering, are probably most likely to be aware and careful and sticking to rules. It seems a bit vague for a trial.
No, I don't believe anyone should be forced, pressured, or inconvenienced into agreeing. Does it actually prevent transmission? But if it is that safe, then anyone worried will have had theirs.
No, I don't believe anyone should be forced, pressured, or inconvenienced into agreeing. Does it actually prevent transmission? But if it is that safe, then anyone worried will have had theirs.
//I agree with tomus in that I don't think that having the vaccine should be made compulsory...on the other hand...and this is personal.... once a vaccine is avaialable, I would prefer to know that the people who come into my house have been vaccinated.//
But if you've had the vaccine yourself Woof, it wouldn't matter. Do what you want to do - take it or don't. Who gives a toss what anyone else does?
But if you've had the vaccine yourself Woof, it wouldn't matter. Do what you want to do - take it or don't. Who gives a toss what anyone else does?
That's not how it works, Tomus.
If I take the vaccine I've got a 70% (or whatever) chance that I will be safe - that's not enough for me to voluntarily let a potential carrier into my house.
If we've both had the vaccine then my risk is much lower - but still not zero.
But if 70% or so of the population takes the vaccine, then the R0 number will drop to the point that the virus dies away in the community and everybody is safe - including those who cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons.
That's why I want a high take-up rate
If I take the vaccine I've got a 70% (or whatever) chance that I will be safe - that's not enough for me to voluntarily let a potential carrier into my house.
If we've both had the vaccine then my risk is much lower - but still not zero.
But if 70% or so of the population takes the vaccine, then the R0 number will drop to the point that the virus dies away in the community and everybody is safe - including those who cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons.
That's why I want a high take-up rate
// presumably when volunteers have been vaccinated, they then need to be deliberately exposed to covid.//
has this point been answered?
No this would be a challenge trial which was discussed but NOT done, whilst they were doing this trial. Vaccinate a lot and see who got covid. You wait along time in the UK ( prevalence low ) and not that long in Brazil ( prevalence high) . But are Brazilians Englishmen? anyway they waited for infection and found that the treatment group had 10% of the control group hence - 90% protection.
Oxford have been VERY poor at explaining this sort of stuff. It is almost as tho no one has taken ownership of the trial. "Victoire az many fathers, Defeat ee 'as none" (Napoleon).
One of the hares (geese) let loose in this is whether vaccination converts normals to carriers, so that they dont get the disease but can spread it. Now if you are testing it in an environment where there are already covid infections AND carriers, then it may be very difficult to sort out. ( that is the carriers would have carried anyway)
has this point been answered?
No this would be a challenge trial which was discussed but NOT done, whilst they were doing this trial. Vaccinate a lot and see who got covid. You wait along time in the UK ( prevalence low ) and not that long in Brazil ( prevalence high) . But are Brazilians Englishmen? anyway they waited for infection and found that the treatment group had 10% of the control group hence - 90% protection.
Oxford have been VERY poor at explaining this sort of stuff. It is almost as tho no one has taken ownership of the trial. "Victoire az many fathers, Defeat ee 'as none" (Napoleon).
One of the hares (geese) let loose in this is whether vaccination converts normals to carriers, so that they dont get the disease but can spread it. Now if you are testing it in an environment where there are already covid infections AND carriers, then it may be very difficult to sort out. ( that is the carriers would have carried anyway)
yes sunny dave very well put
so long as enough people have it, when the R number is less than one it will die away EVEN THO there are susceptibles who never get infected. ( very counter intuitive)
and the R number gives you the proportion where that is achieved. Measles where R is around 12 - each one infects around 12 other kids - you need a vaccintion rate of over 90% BUT covid which started at 3-4 it is around 60%
[take the r number - take the reciprocal, take it away from one, convert to percent, and that's your herd immunity figure. I THINK that is how they are doing it] - yeah coz 3 gives 1/3 gives 2/3 gives 67% which is the well known herd immunity we need
so long as enough people have it, when the R number is less than one it will die away EVEN THO there are susceptibles who never get infected. ( very counter intuitive)
and the R number gives you the proportion where that is achieved. Measles where R is around 12 - each one infects around 12 other kids - you need a vaccintion rate of over 90% BUT covid which started at 3-4 it is around 60%
[take the r number - take the reciprocal, take it away from one, convert to percent, and that's your herd immunity figure. I THINK that is how they are doing it] - yeah coz 3 gives 1/3 gives 2/3 gives 67% which is the well known herd immunity we need
Who said that people don't want the vaccine because of a 'conspiracy'?? I know two people who won't be having it and it's nothing to do with a conspiracy. It's their own personal choice about vaccines and one which they are entitled to. I haven't had the flu jab for many, many years due to an unpleasant reaction the last time I had it, so I am naturally undecided about this one. Never mind, I'll go around wearing a huge sign saying UNCLEAN UNCLEAN if I decide not to have it.
I think it's amazing that vaccines will imminently be available for this virus but its up to people to make an informed choice whether they have this vaccine or not.
If a vaccine contains the RNA of a virus which has not been deactivated it can infiltrate our DNA and so there is the potential for a genetic crisis down the line. Nevertheless the Doctors at work are very excited as our Trust is one that has been chosen for the rollout so we'll be vaccinated first.
Having had the virus, I'm not sure now whether the vaccine would benefit me. It's too early to tell if one encounter with the virus confers long-term immunity.
If a vaccine contains the RNA of a virus which has not been deactivated it can infiltrate our DNA and so there is the potential for a genetic crisis down the line. Nevertheless the Doctors at work are very excited as our Trust is one that has been chosen for the rollout so we'll be vaccinated first.
Having had the virus, I'm not sure now whether the vaccine would benefit me. It's too early to tell if one encounter with the virus confers long-term immunity.
However the fact that some of you are so 100% convinced that others having it will protect you and are angry if they don't is concerning. This vaccine has appeared from nowhere with no time to analyse the outcomes, of course some people are going to be a bit reluctant.
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It’s patently obvious you’ve carried out no research on this subject whatsoever.
What’s concerning is your mindset and rationale, or rather lack of it.
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It’s patently obvious you’ve carried out no research on this subject whatsoever.
What’s concerning is your mindset and rationale, or rather lack of it.
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