Bigots On Th E March In The State Of Virginia

[mikey4444]

Charlottesville: State of emergency over US far-right rally.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40912509

"The mayor condemned the march as a "parade of hatred".

[jim360]

Dodging accusations of hypocrisy by trying to drag others down with you isn't really answering the question, is it?

Never mind, it was mainly rhetorical, because the answer is easy: double standards. Everyone has them.

[Peter Pedant]

well - the state of West Virigina oops really does exist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_West_Virginia
and the current governor is Jim Justice
and yes it was a secessionist piece of land which was admitted to the Union in the 1860s
so the Founding Fathers 1780s well it is a bit late for that
but I do understand the Robert E lee stuff

the commonwealth of virginia is where the action is at tho'
(also a secessionist state) - capital Richmond - civil war and all that sort of stuff. Flattening people anywhere - Charlottesville - North London mosque - it doesnt take much to condemn it - does it ?

Like the Queen of England who doesnt do 'informal'
I dont really 'do' American History

[vetuste_ennemi]

Don't do American history? Oh, dear. But don't let that be an impediment, Peter. You know enough to explain to the questioner the essential moral difference between Jefferson and Robert E Lee

[vetuste_ennemi]

I have in the past been accused of opacity. You do understand the question, don't you?

[naomi24]

Jim at 09:25, it was your question. ;o)

[Peter Pedant]

// why stop there any statues of truman..who gave the green light to drop the atomic bomb on hiroshima,// fender

find one..... to pull down

Lots of Roosevelt statues - squares and bridges ( one in Budapest I think) - Truman's considered position in history is as 'a hopeless incompetent' and THAT may be why at the time even they didnt honour him....[ even at the time he was looked on a hopeless incompetent and that is now confirmed -yeah yeah I know 1000 ABers will trill - "who by"]

[jim360]

Well yes, one was a political leader and the other was a military general. What I want to know is why all this focus on Robert Lee at the expense of Jefferson Davis.

[Peter Pedant]

what's the //difference between Jefferson and Robert E Lee//

oo about 60 years....

sorry - you did say 'moral'
yes one was a unionist and one a secessionist - obvious difference
BUT when Lee surrendered to Grant at Appomattox - 1865 - he did save countless lives ( 250 000 dead so far - vietname 50 000 dead)

[Peter Pedant]

// What I want to know is why all this focus on Robert Lee at the expense of Jefferson Davis.//

read a book on American History and certainly dont do it via these pages. Jeffereson Davis was hopeless .... is the correct answer

[vetuste_ennemi]

Yes, I got the age right. Got the surrender right. Trying to work out the slave bit. "Moral"? Geddit?

Are you being deliberately stupid, or is this a typical Pedant provocation?

[vetuste_ennemi]

The point, of course,is that our questioner hasn't the faintest clue about anything we're talking about. Educate him first, then correct me second.

[mikey4444]

Ah !....more personal insults...keep digging Vetuste !

[jim360]

Possibly, but he was also the political face of the Confederacy. And (probably) more of a racist bigot than Lee was, although that's perhaps a little brave to say based on five minutes of reading.

[Khandro]

Madam, don't bring up your sons to detest the United States government. Recollect that we form one country now. Abandon all these local animosities, and make your sons Americans.

Robert E. Lee

[anotheoldgit]

There are some who wish for the removal of the statue of Cecil Rhodes from Oxford university.

"When America sneezes" and all that.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Who was "he" and what does "racial bigot" mean, Jim?

I'm asking you to imagine yourself back in time two centuries.

[jim360]

"he" = Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederacy.

"racist bigot" = ... well, racist bigot, I suppose. Based on such charming quotes as,

"We recognize the *** as God and God's Book and God's Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him. Our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude."

"We recognize the fact of the inferiority stamped upon that race of men by the Creator, and from the cradle to the grave, our Government, as a civil institution, marks that inferiority."

"It would grant me much relief to learn your sons were engaged matrimonially to other white men if I was previously faced with the spectre of those same sons wedding *** women, slave or free, and siring *** sons that could presume to claim inheritance of your namesakes and property, or worse, equality with your purer grandchildren."

It's not exactly ambiguous that, by modern standards, he was a racist. To be sure, so was society as a whole at the time.

[jim360]

*** = neggro, of course.

[ichkeria]

Does the "speeding car" incident count as terrorism I wonder?

Trump's rather pointed condemnation of "all sides" rather reminds me of Jeremy Corbyn and his reaction to the situation in Venezuela
Trump, let us say, has advisers, who are known to be thick with some very dubious far right elements in the US and it would do him no harm to disassociate himself with those, in the same way that it is naive of Corbyn not to acknowledge the backage he carries with the Venezuelan authorities past and present.

[Khandro]

//he was a racist. To be sure, so was society as a whole at the time. //
You're absolutely right jim, the American anti-slavery movement only started in the 1830s, so any of the protesters from American families would have forebears who probably found slavery acceptable and profited from it.
The responsibility for slavery was collective, so singling out any one person is nonsensical