Now We Know Why Labour Are More Frightened Of Ukip Than The Tories Are.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/poll-shows-voters-believe-ukip-is-to-the-left-of-the-tories-9923416.html

/// Voters see Ukip as more left wing than the Conservative Party in a shock poll finding that will fuel concerns among Ed Miliband's allies that Nigel Farage is "parking his tanks on Labour's lawn". ///

Better get your anti-tank weapons out Mikey, but then there are those Scots to fear also.

[Retrochic]

After I'd been to the UKIP conference a few months ago I predicted there would be Labour defectors come to UKIP and was laughed down by the usual leftie suspects on here. 'And it came to pass....' well it will do next year.

[Gromit]

This poll shows there are some poliically illiterate people out there, something we already know.

It is clear to anyone who has the slightest knowledge, that UKIP is positioned to the right of the Conservatives on the Political spectrum. If people are supporting UKIP in the belief that the party is left wing, then that suggests the UKIP supporters are not very bright.

UKIP will undoubtedly take some Labour votes, but the suggestion that they are more or equal of a threat to Labour is preposterous. Smacks fof wishful thinking (or self deluding) by the Conservative leaning press.

[Retrochic]

of course it is gromit -all UKIP supporters are ignorant racist bigots that's why both major political parties are starting to tweak their Manifestos to reflect UKIP thinking.

[Gromit]

// I predicted there would be Labour defectors come to UKIP... 'And it came to pass....' //

Well, no it didn't. No Labour MPs have defected. No UKIP candidates have been elected in Labour Bye elections. No Labour councils were won by UKIP.

UKIP's sucesses this padt year have been mainly at the expense of the Conservatives.

[Retrochic]

Gromit -if you are going to quote someone at least quote the full sentence -you can't crop a sentence to make your point -its just not cricket! I said 'and it came to pass....well it will do next year' -and as you nor I have a crystal ball (well not one if full working order) we will just have to 'wait and see'

[mikey4444]

Gromit has it right here. UKIP is not and never has been more left wing than the Tories, and to suggest otherwise is ludicrous and counter-intuitive.

If anything, UKIP is the militant wing of the Tory Party. UKIP was formed as a splinter group of the Tories and their current Leader is a failed, ex-Tory activist.

If some people have been taken in by UKIP's errant nonsense, than it follows that their opinions and views on politics in general can hardly be taken seriously.

UKIP may indeed attract some Labour support, but to suggest that the essential nature of the Party isn't intimately associated with Far Right politics is daft in the extreme.

Gromit got one thing slightly wrong though. UKIP's successes this past year haven't been mainly at the expense of the Conservatives......they been entirely at the expense of the Tories. At the start of the Autumn this year, UKIP had no MPs...now they have 2 and the Tories have 2 less.

Probatum est.

[jno]

did people really vote for Carswell and Reckless because they thought they were the leftwing option? I find that hard to believe. But where voters think a party lies on a hypothetical sqpectrum isn't going to affect whether they vote for them or not.

[lindapalmara]

I seem to remember that RobertKilroy Silk had a hand in starting UKIP. An Ex Labour MP Mikey

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

/// UKIP is not and never has been more left wing than the Tories, and to suggest otherwise is ludicrous and counter-intuitive. ///

So the only polls that are correct are the ones that you put forward then?

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/independent-on-sunday-poll-results-9923393.html

[mikey4444]

And a prize pillock linda....the pillock-ness was a much stronger factor in his being involved with UKIP than his previous Labour credentials.

[ladybirder]

We have one of our Labour councillors defecting to UKIP.
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/11660074.Brighton_and_Hove_Labour_councillor_defects_to_UKIP/

[jim360]

"So the only polls that are correct are the ones [mikey] puts forward?"

This polls does not say that UKIP is more left-wing than the Tories. It says that people perceive that UKIP is more left-wing than the Tories. And, even then, that's a bit of a twist: people see UKIP as less right-wing, which is perhaps a different thing altogether.

Regardless, the poll may be correct up to the usual statistical error, but the interpretation that "UKIP is more left-wing" is not.

[mikey4444]

AOG...your link just proves what I have said. Its shows Farage at 6.6, just behind dave at 6.8. The Labour Party comes in at about 4.

How does this show that UKIP are "left wing " ?

Still probatum est.

[lindapalmara]

I really don't think it's anything about being right or left. Voters now see a party that speaks their language and address their concerns. For years Labour have said that immigration wasn't an issue with voters on the doorstep but it is an issue for a lot of working class people.

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

/// And a prize pillock linda...///

Why do you have to come out with expletives all the time, you remind me of that woman at the back of the audience on question Time.

/// AOG...your link just proves what I have said. Its shows Farage at 6.6, just behind dave at 6.8. The Labour Party comes in at about 4. ///

/// How does this show that UKIP are "left wing " ? ///

Because the article doesn't say Ukip are "left-wing, but what it does say however that voters see UKIP as more left-wing than the Conservative Party.

[Svejk]

Another reason Labour are losing support;

[mikey4444]

Pillock is an expletive ?

Really ?

[retrocop]

I suppose there might be some svejk who wouldn't believe that is a spoof.

[ichkeria]

Do we know of any Labour defectors to UKIP other than Natasha Bolter, who doesn't exactly look like a prize catch (unless your name is Roger Bird of course lol)
As said, this poll says more about the level of intelligence of some voters, and is maybe not that surprising, nor necessarily a huge threat to Labour. People don't like to think of themselves as "extreme" in their voting intentions, as the following extract would bear out
"Fascinatingly, the Conservative Party is considered more right-wing by Conservative voters (7.11) than Ukip is by Ukip voters (6.28). Ukip voters see themselves as less right-wing (5.86) than Conservative voters see themselves (6.44)."

I think that is interesting, and telling, but maybe not so surprising.
And none of it appears to suggest people think UKIP is "left wing" as such", just not as right wing as the Tories. But then "right wing" has a stigma about it for many people, which is why this is maybe worse news for the Tories than Labour as a matter of fact.

[ChillDoubt]

Well, no it didn't. No Labour MPs have defected. No UKIP candidates have been elected in Labour Bye elections. No Labour councils were won by UKIP.
----------------------------
Labour won their last by election in Manchester by 600 votes from UKIP, when previously it had been by 6,000 from Conservative, a win that got the briefest ever mention by Miliband, who subsequently took no questions on the subject either.
So where did those 5,400 go? Looks to me like the Independent's poll has seen the writing on the wall and are now reading it aloud.
Miliband is in for the toughest 4 months of his political life and he doesn't look armed for the fight.