Deaths On Brecon Beacons

[LoftyLottie]

This has really upset and worried me. I know they have to face terrible conditions in Afghanistan, etc., but surely there should have been more supervision and observation on a training exercise.

What do other ABers think

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/two-military-personnel-die-welsh-exercise-140343537.html#Feore4n

[Zacs-Master]

Shari, your comment 'Not much point killing our army off ourselves before the enemy ever get a look at them' suggests you thought they were in basic training.

[Sharingan]

Ah sorry , no I see. I meant no point us killing them for them before they even get to wherever we are sending them, not necessarily that they were brand new to it all.

[Zacs-Master]

Fair enough.

[mikey4444]

I was up on the same range this afternoon as these boys died and my temp gauge said 28 degrees !

[Eve]

An absolute tragedy but I think it is far too early to judge and more information is needed.

The weather here may be extreme to us generally though many of our forces serve in places with far more extreme weather. Training is done under extreme conditions or how else are they to cope when dropped into a warzone with far more extreme circumstances than weather to cope with.

It's all unknown, the experience, level of training, sufficiency of hydration, how quickly help was maintained, so many things and from both sides.

I was an RAF cadet and we used to use live rounds in shooting practice and competitions, L98 rifles usually and including exercises where we would run with the gun against others in run and shoot conditions.

It was actually the running, not the shooting that got me, I tripped badly in waterlogged field in a run and shoot (partly trying not to get my gun in the mud to slow me down) and ended up in plaster ankle to hip - though I still finished, the drive, not wanting to let team mates down and having intimidating military men running down the field after you screaming at you to carry on is somewhat of an incentive, even if defying common sense!

Before we were allowed anything other than a .22 though we had to learn about the rifle, safety procedures, how to strip it and put it back together and be examined by an outside examiner before we could use it with live rounds.

[DJHawkes]

My ex husband was in the mountain rescue out of RAf St Athan from 1977 to 1981 and he was called out on several occasions when the SAS trainees from hereford had got lost with a big bag of rocks on their backs. It's nothing new. I was always more worried for my husband out in all weathers looking for the lost soldiers than the lost soldier,

[DJHawkes]

oh and the team covered the brecons and they spent 3 weekends a month out training for these search and rescues and they knew what they were doing and went prepared, but it was still a worry.

[DTCwordfan]

Unfortunate and sound like some common sense wasn't followed as to liquid intake and keeping salt levels up - all very basic and something that the Military should have plenty of experience of........ As Mountain Death crew further to the North, we were well advised about this on hot summer days - and that was back in the 70s/80s

[youngmafbog]

The tempwratures are nothing compared to what our special forces will be expected to ebdure.
Training has to be hard, the taliban and their ilk dont subscribe to th HRA or liberal right-on thinking of this site.
Very sad though and it must be investigated ti ensure no bullying was involved.

[naomi24]

Regardless of the conditions soldier may face abroad, on a training exercise in this country, this really shouldn't happen.

[LoftyLottie]

Safety whilst training should be of prime importance surely. As I said before you can never replicate what will happen whilst on duty, but only as get as true to life as possible. But basically I agree with Naomi. If the boys were not following orders then that is a different matter, but if they were then someone is culpable. It will be interesting to see what the outcome is. But it is very, very sad.

[sherrardk]

If this was special forces, then training in the Beacons on a hot weekend is nothing to now they usually train. As I posted earlier, we need to know the circumstances and regiments involved really.

[youngmafbog]

Exactly why we need to have an investigation.
I have had the good fortune due to where i live of meeting sbs and people who gave failed to get in. Often bravado plays a part in training but we must wait and see.
I still take my hat of to them for what they do.

[mikey4444]

There is a public road that crosses the SENTA range and I was driving across it yesterday. According to the temp. gauge on my Fiesta, it was 27 degrees !

[Gromit]

// • July 1998 Graham Holmes, 23, a promising cadet at the Sandhurst training base, dropped dead from heat exhaustion after embarking on a six-mile training run carrying 18kg (40lb) of equipment. An autopsy revealed he suffered a heart attack and internal haemorrhaging as a result of the endurance test

• July 1997 Andrew Charnock collapsed and died from heat exhaustion during a 30-mile training run on Dartmoor //

Isn't the first time, and it won't be the last.

[sandyRoe]

Both were TA Soldiers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23311651

[ChillDoubt]

An awful lot of ill-informed comments on here from people who have absolutely no idea about life in HM Forces nor the selection processes for consideration for service in Special Forces i.e. SAS, SBS, 14 Int etc
I particularly like the one's about 'too hot for an exercise'. These men are at the peak of physical fitness and must go where tasked when required, be that somewhere in freezing temperatures or hot and tropical ones. They are trained for hard extraction under the most rigorous of circumstances. Unfortunately, you don't get to choose the weather when on 'Selection'!

Yes it's a tragedy that someone has died but these are volunteers attempting to join the most elite Special Forces in the world, not the Boy Scouts.

[ChillDoubt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_dance_%28exercise%29

[Peter Pedant]

.

They dont wanna give up and are motivated to exercise themselves to perdition. Clearly supervision needs to be better

after all in a boxing match - known to be dangerous - the referees dont go to the Green room for a cuppa tea whilst a bout is in progress....
and thensay ... yo cant be there ALL the time....

[Peter Pedant]

Fan dance......

I was thinking of the Pegasus race where crews carry an ambulance and mobile operating theatre up and down various hills - and then pitch it and use it on someone