The K M Links Game- April Week 3
Quizzes & Puzzles6 mins ago
What are <<true Right-Wing principles>>?
In a recent thread in the News section reference was made to the current government not reflecting <<true Right-Wing principles>>
What does that mean?
It is quite difficult to find a concise description of 'right wing principles.
According to Thomas Sowell, the american economist and social historian, the phrase "Right-wing" is used with so many different meanings that it has almost lost all meaning, except opposition to the Left.
As this is a term frequently bandied about, particularly in the AB News section, it would be interesting to see any views from ABers especially those who consider themselves 'right wing'
What does that mean?
It is quite difficult to find a concise description of 'right wing principles.
According to Thomas Sowell, the american economist and social historian, the phrase "Right-wing" is used with so many different meanings that it has almost lost all meaning, except opposition to the Left.
As this is a term frequently bandied about, particularly in the AB News section, it would be interesting to see any views from ABers especially those who consider themselves 'right wing'
Answers
1 to 16 of 16
Here's one I made up earlier:
Left wingers try to apply complex solutions to simple problems.
That principle works nearly all of the time,
Left wingers try to apply complex solutions to simple problems.
That principle works nearly all of the time,
15:16 Mon 02nd Apr 2012
All in the true balance of things, one must also find out what left-Wing principles are.
/// So, what’s the difference between left and right wing? ///
/// To explain this I’ll compare and contrast the positions taken by the far left and the far right. Be aware that many people’s political beliefs are on a continuum between left and right. ///
/// My friend used to have this analogy = left wingers believe that the state is more important than the individual, right wingers believe that the individual is more important than the state. ///
/// That analogy is semi-true. Left wingers believe that governments are a force for social justice and change, and so should intervene in individual’s lives to ensure social justice is achieved. Right wingers believe that governments are big and unwieldy and so should not interfere with people’s lives at all. They believe that government interference contravenes an individual’s right to liberty. ///
.
/// So, what’s the difference between left and right wing? ///
/// To explain this I’ll compare and contrast the positions taken by the far left and the far right. Be aware that many people’s political beliefs are on a continuum between left and right. ///
/// My friend used to have this analogy = left wingers believe that the state is more important than the individual, right wingers believe that the individual is more important than the state. ///
/// That analogy is semi-true. Left wingers believe that governments are a force for social justice and change, and so should intervene in individual’s lives to ensure social justice is achieved. Right wingers believe that governments are big and unwieldy and so should not interfere with people’s lives at all. They believe that government interference contravenes an individual’s right to liberty. ///
.
I suspect those from the opposing wings would claim the same intentions but have different ways if achieving them. For example I am often accused of being right wing because I'm supportive of our nation above all others. The left on the other hand appear to me at least to bask in any failures or c0ckups and if we do well at anting it's always due to others helping or favourable circumstances. No doubt they too would argue they are in fact being supportive through criticism.
Also I don't believe that the simple left/right pigeon holeing can ever tell the true story. I am often considered right wing but my attitude to things like health care and transport for example border on the communist!
Also I don't believe that the simple left/right pigeon holeing can ever tell the true story. I am often considered right wing but my attitude to things like health care and transport for example border on the communist!
I'm really glad you've asked this, Zeuhl. People are so happy to hide these terms, without realising that they're actually pretty meaningless.
Right-wing and Left-wing are umbrella terms - not much else. Both terms encompass hugely various (and often contradictory) belief systems. What unifies them varies in place to place.
I disagree with AOG's distinction. You can find just as many right-wingers who are eager for the state to interfere in peoples' lives as you can left-wingers - I don't think it's a particularly credible way to distinguish them. I think if there's any difference at all, it probably boils down to exactly what kind of state interference and means of social control are seen as legitimate and which are not. For example, someone of the 'right' is generally speaking pretty comfortable with the government intervening in peoples' lives in the name of "security" (whatever that may mean), whereas someone on the 'left' is normally pretty happy for the government to intervene in peoples' lives in the name of "social justice" (whatever that may mean) or some other end.
Of course, that's just in a British context. The meaning varies elsewhere.
To answer the question, "True Right/Left Wing" principles typically means whatever the speaker wishes it to mean. It is a meaningless umbrella term and a thinly disguised appeal to authority, and should be treated like the fallacy it is.
A good, classic essay on this subject is Oakeshott's 'Rationalism in Politics'. Personally, I think he made an excellent case for abandoning arbitrary Right-Left partisan obsessions altogether.
Right-wing and Left-wing are umbrella terms - not much else. Both terms encompass hugely various (and often contradictory) belief systems. What unifies them varies in place to place.
I disagree with AOG's distinction. You can find just as many right-wingers who are eager for the state to interfere in peoples' lives as you can left-wingers - I don't think it's a particularly credible way to distinguish them. I think if there's any difference at all, it probably boils down to exactly what kind of state interference and means of social control are seen as legitimate and which are not. For example, someone of the 'right' is generally speaking pretty comfortable with the government intervening in peoples' lives in the name of "security" (whatever that may mean), whereas someone on the 'left' is normally pretty happy for the government to intervene in peoples' lives in the name of "social justice" (whatever that may mean) or some other end.
Of course, that's just in a British context. The meaning varies elsewhere.
To answer the question, "True Right/Left Wing" principles typically means whatever the speaker wishes it to mean. It is a meaningless umbrella term and a thinly disguised appeal to authority, and should be treated like the fallacy it is.
A good, classic essay on this subject is Oakeshott's 'Rationalism in Politics'. Personally, I think he made an excellent case for abandoning arbitrary Right-Left partisan obsessions altogether.
Yes the terms left- and right-wing are entirely arbitrary, and can simply mean for and against change.
At the time of the collapse of communism in Russia, pretty much all the British press (regardless of political orientation) referred to the old guard communists as right-wing because they were in favour of maintaining the status quo, whereas using AOG mate's definition they were clearly left-wing (they believed that the state was more important than the individual).
At the time of the collapse of communism in Russia, pretty much all the British press (regardless of political orientation) referred to the old guard communists as right-wing because they were in favour of maintaining the status quo, whereas using AOG mate's definition they were clearly left-wing (they believed that the state was more important than the individual).
Thanks d9/krono
I think your reservations are similar to those that prompted my question.
I am never comfortable with leftie/rightie terms because first of all i'm not sure where i would place myself - and different contexts would suggest different positions.
Second, i recognise, as you do, that the two extremes are very similar to each other in their behaviour, most notably their belief in imposing their dogma on others and attempting to control others.
The closest wikipedia gets to a concise definition of 'right wing' (compared with 'left wing' presumably) is:
<<the support or acceptance of social hierarchy. Inequality is viewed by the Right as inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, whether it arises though traditional social differences, or from competition in market economies>>
I think your reservations are similar to those that prompted my question.
I am never comfortable with leftie/rightie terms because first of all i'm not sure where i would place myself - and different contexts would suggest different positions.
Second, i recognise, as you do, that the two extremes are very similar to each other in their behaviour, most notably their belief in imposing their dogma on others and attempting to control others.
The closest wikipedia gets to a concise definition of 'right wing' (compared with 'left wing' presumably) is:
<<the support or acceptance of social hierarchy. Inequality is viewed by the Right as inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, whether it arises though traditional social differences, or from competition in market economies>>
The notion of right and left "wings" gives rise to the notion that a straight side-to-side line is involved, stretching out in both directions. However, it is more true to life to think of the line as a circle or at least a substantial arc thereof. Thus, the very extreme left and the very extreme right may be closer to each OTHER than either is to the CENTRE.
It's left or right wing if I don't agree with it ! Which it is, depends on whether it's a Guardian writer or a Telegraph one fervently proposing it. LOL
There are really no defining principles of either wing. There were some on the left when the Labour Party was founded but time has moved on, and modern politics here makes parties more pragmatic and nearer a fuzzy centre. Even the US is more 'liberal' than it was, but when Republican presidents do, or approve, anything which is vaguely socialist they call it something which hides its 'liberal' nature,of course. Their 'right wing principles' seems to consist of one 'principle' of imagining a return to an America which never existed.
There are really no defining principles of either wing. There were some on the left when the Labour Party was founded but time has moved on, and modern politics here makes parties more pragmatic and nearer a fuzzy centre. Even the US is more 'liberal' than it was, but when Republican presidents do, or approve, anything which is vaguely socialist they call it something which hides its 'liberal' nature,of course. Their 'right wing principles' seems to consist of one 'principle' of imagining a return to an America which never existed.
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