The Difference Between Being European And Being A Member Of The Eu?

[birdie1971]

I'm constantly amazed by the conflation of the idea of being in the EU and being European. Pro-EU people persistently and deliberately perpetuate the lie that being European equates to being in the EU. I've seen countless celebrities on TV and people in my everyday life make this monumentally idiotic mistake and perpetuate this falsehood. They think that by exiting the EU, the UK is somehow leaving Europe – the very continent that it is tectonically tied to. The mind boggles at these imbeciles. Thankfully, there are like-minded people out there in the world who are great at exposing this pernicious myth and enunciating far more eloquently than I ever could:

https://youtu.be/jmscbGPrkRM

[ichkeria]

I don’t think I have ever heard a supporter of the EU say that.
Often the term “Europe” is used loosely to mean the EU (which actually is much of Europe anyway)
In contrast I’ve heard a number of people complain about us being in the Eurovision Song Contest after Brexit ;-)

[ichkeria]

As an Irish person I find there’s little more irritating than nonsense spouted in that processed cheese accent :-)

[-Talbot-]

No democratic decision is ever irreversible, and every democratic decision can be revisited and, if necessary, reversed. That fact doesn't undermine democracy, it strengthens it.



Well, when we have left feel free to carry out your democratic right to campaign to get us back in, jim.

That's democracy.

[Theland]

Talbot :-)

[Spicerack]

ichkeria //As an Irish person //

Holy mother of Mary. An Irish Islamist. That's quite a novelty.

What do the other lads call you, Al Hiberni?

[baza]

I am anti EU but cannot deny the fact that we are joined to Europe geographically.

[birdie1971]

Ichkeria - “I don’t think I have ever heard a supporter of the EU say that [the EU is the same thing as Europe]...”

If you had watched the linked video you would have seen Guy Verhofstadt make that claim not once but twice. You would have also seen him say that he wants every EU nation to give all their sovereign power to the EU. He's a very dangerous man indeed.

[ichkeria]

That video adopts pretty much the same approach as you do: namely misrepresent the “opposition” argument completely and then - certainly in the case of the video - proceed to make the actual opposition case :-)

[birdie1971]

Ichkeria -

Ahh, I see. So Guy Verhofstadt doesn't conflate the EU with Europe and he doesn't rant and rave in the EU Parliament about how annoying it is that nation states within the EU won't give up their sovereign power to the likes of him? Gottcha.

Seriously, Ichkeria, what is it about the EU that so enamours you? Why do you want to be ruled over by a supranational bureaucratic entity with the power to impose laws upon the UK? I don't get it. Surely a nation should be ruled by individuals that it sees fit to place in Parliament? That way, if any of those individuals say or do anything that you dislike, you have the opportunity to remove them from their positions of power. Currently, if you don't like Verhofstadt, Moedas, Orbán, Tusk, Creţu, etc. there's literally nothing you can do to remove them from office. Nothing.

Why do you wish to be ruled over by people you cannot deselect? Do you have some kind of vested personal interest in the EU?

[vetuste_ennemi]

I would like to understand why the aspiration of many Scottish people not to be governed by "London" is treated with respect, while the aspiration of most English people not to be governed by Brussels is derided.

[vetuste_ennemi]

I think EU lovers like Ichkeria and his mentor enjoy servitude as long as it pays well and they're well fed. And antiquated moral principles like freedom of speech not an issue.

Their assumption is that the oligarchy under its existing rules is benign, and that its attitudes andquote[its] rules will stay so.

[vetuste_ennemi]

(All the tools of tyranny were provided by the Weimar Republic: "Late you come, yet still you come".)

[birdie1971]

Interesting that "ichkeria" is taking his time responding to my question of [00:05 Sun 24th Feb 2019]. He was so quick to respond to every previous post I made on this thread but now seems to have vanished.

I'm sure he'll be along any minute to respond to why he loves the EU so very, very much...

[ichkeria]

It’s called “going to bed” :-)

I’m not really sure what your point is, to be honest: as I’ve said twice already I don’t agree with your premise that supporters of the EU cannot see the difference between the continent of Europe and the EU. But in the opinion of many of us there are great benefits to being in the EU and few if any benefits to staying. And the EU consists of a huge number of countries in Europe, so the lax terminology while strictly incorrect does have a point to it.
If and when we leave the EU then we will of course continue to have a close relationship with former EU partners as well as continuing to have close ties with non EU members. There is a strand of Brexitism tho (present company excepted I’m sure) whose Europhobia does seem to extend to looking longingly at the tectonic plates.

As for the video, the Speaker also starts with an inaccurate caricature of those who oppose isolationism, framed for his own ends: it’s not instructive in my opinion, except to the degree that it speaks for the weakness of his case.
I guess that’s it from me now on this matter. I’m disinclined to comment further as I can almost smell the aggression ...

[ichkeria]

... other than to say it should say “benefits of leaving” ;-)

[birdie1971]

Ichkeria - “... I’m disinclined to comment further as I can almost smell the aggression ...”

Oh dear. The default position of those who have no real argument is to demonize your opponents to prevent further debate. Suggesting that you can, “smell the aggression” is the canary in the cage.

You disappoint but don't surprise me.

[jim360]

What a massive hypocrite. You literally started off this thread by demonising everyone who disagreed with you.

[naomi24]

Jim, do us all a favour and stop with the puerile quoting of the ‘rules’. You are not above deeming opinions that contradict yours ‘moronic’.

[jim360]

There's a difference between calling an opinion moronic and a person a moron.

And besides, I confine myself to calling opinions moronic only when they actually are :P

[naomi24]

Grow up.