Is This Fair

[lankeela]

"BBC Two's Mastermind presented by new host Clive Myrie is particularly interested in receiving applications from under-represented groups for the next series!"

Should they not take applications equally from everyone that applies?

[jourdain2]

Every Mastermind programme encourages applications from anybody to have a go. What on earth is Myrie on about? Not an auspicious start.

[New Judge]

//A black person can't even get a job without at least one person on AB using the word "tick-boxing". A long way to go...//

That's not the same thing at all. The BBC is not renowned for failing to choose "under represented" (UR) groups to participate in its productions. I'm quite sure if there were plenty of UR applicants for MM there would be plenty of UR participants. The fact is that not everybody is attracted to the same thing and as I suggested earlier, I imagine there are not too many UR (whatever that might mean) applicants. You don't see too many middle aged white males on "Britain's Got Talent" or "The X-Factor." There are no dark forces at work - it's simply that such productions do not attract them. It's similar to the contention made a couple of years ago that the Lake District must make efforts to become more "inclusive" and attract a greater diversity of visitors. Everybody who is interested knows where the Lake District is and those who want to go there can. It's just that they don't.

[pixie374]

Just the opposite, ttt. It's the handwriting about box-ticking, that entirely changed my mind about how people think. You are suggesting apparently, that if people are suspicious, it should be amended. But realistically, it's those people who are the problem.

[Spicerack]

^ That might explain the shortage of fat, middle-aged, white hip hop artists, NJ.
It's all making sense now. (to normal people who haven't been on speshul courses)

[pixie374]

Nj, of course not everything is for everybody. But it's also obvious, that when sections of the community are continually underrepresented for thousands of years- they may actually be a reason. And it might be worth finding? As I said, for as long as white men have been on control of pretty much every section of society- they haven't yet chosen "others" at an equal rate.
How do we change that? Or are you saying it's ok?

[pixie374]

Lol spice... I love your obsession with course. Which did you do?

[Spicerack]

Just so we're quite clear, pixie. You do know The Flintstones were made up, don't you?

[pixie374]

Clearly. But bless you for the obvious attempt at deviation. Subtlety not your strong point?

[Peter Pedant]

oh come on - this is mastermind
not prime minister or anything !

[naomi24]

Thoroughly fed up with all this nonsense. If people want to apply there's nothing stopping them.

[Peter Pedant]

i agree - this thread is crazy stuff

[New Judge]

// But it's also obvious, that when sections of the community are continually underrepresented for thousands of years- they may actually be a reason. //

There's all sorts of reasons depending on the event. White people are vastly under represented in athletic sprint races. It's because black people are generally better at it. But those events are still open to all comers. Back to MM, I cannot imagine how anybody could accuse the BBC (of all people) of some sort of racial bias. It's just the way the MM participation is. And no, it doesn't bother me at all provided there is no discrimination involved. There must be a reason why black people seem to be under represented in some areas - and the same can be said for white people in others. But I'll not lose any sleep over it.

[pixie374]

//White people are vastly under represented in athletic sprint races. It's because black people are generally better at it.//

Being genuinely better at something- fair enough. Assuming someone isn't,but got a job through some other reason, isn't.

[naomi24]

//Being genuinely better at something- fair enough. Assuming someone isn't,but got a job through some other reason, isn't.//

Just as people failing to meet the ethnic criteria isn’t …. like being white when BAME minorities are sought. Bias towards one means bias against someone else.

[pixie374]

As it always has done, naomi. And as those who have always been biased towards, clearly have no intention of changing that- to the point we have literally had to introduce laws to force them to- they can hardly whinge now about being forced into fairness.

[naomi24]

We can't legislate against thought. If people want to discriminate - against black or white - they'll find a way - and they do.

[jim360]

Especially in something so innocuous as quizzing, it's manifestly obvious that there's no reason why white men should be better at it, or so much more inclined to participate. So why is it dominated? It isn't enough to "blame" everybody else for not wanting to join in; maybe it's a perception that needs to be challenged. Widening the application field (NB: this is not the same as lowering standards!) may help to challenge that. And, incidentally, the obvious benefit of widening the application field is that in the end the talent shines through even brighter anyway.

[pixie374]

Yes, but at least making it illegal gives some comeback when it becomes obvious.

[naomi24]

//widening the application field//

Has it been restricted in the past - and if so, how? Who was prevented from applying?

[brainiac]

"Forced into fairness" - eh? In what way have the rules about applying to be a contestant on Mastermind been unfair to anyone? Surely only those who think they have a reasonable chance of doing well are going to apply to appear, and it follows that not many bame men and women have thought it worth their while. Didn't stop Shaun Wallace did it?

Do they want lots of bame men and women who are not very good at quizzes to come forward and make a fool of themselves?