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Joint Accounts.

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sire | 15:59 Mon 26th Oct 2020 | Law
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I have a current a/c & also a joint a/c with another person. On my death, do the monies in the joint a/c form part of my estate?

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Its a joint account so legally if you have say £1000 in it, both of you own that £1000 not £500 each. On your death the contents of your joint account would automatically go to the named person with you on the account. Any money you have in your own name becomes your Estate.
Question Author
Thank you Aunt Polly. Your kindness is exceeded only by your personal beauty. x
oh my........xxx
I need a new laptop!
Question Author
Wey Hey. My lucks changed. A lady has sent me -an 87 year old widower - three kisses. There's hope for me yet!!!!!!
was that answer - yes
as in yes it forms part of your estate

the leading case which I never tire of saying is
in re Northall
Mrs Northall put £62 000 in a joint account with son and wehn she died he said "mine all mine!"
and the tax judges not surprisingly said - o come on be serious
it is the persons who put it in

( altho as above anyone named can access) as in

https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Business-and-Finance/Question1720857.html

where hooray an ABer says I am talking crap
or

and here
https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Law/Question1719208.html

or here
https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/ChatterBank/Question1625604.html

where I clearly state the moolah is part of the estate for IHT purposes

and it all boils down to Northall
and that is explained here

https://www.fridaysmove.com/articles/joint-bank-accounts-recent-case-re-northall-deceased-2010-15832
and you may give me a chaste kiss for being right
and telling you why I am right
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One point Aunt Polly. The other person in the joint a/c is my son. Does this make a difference
yes I can answer for polly
it makes Northall directly equivalent ( 'four square' with it as the expensive lawyers say)

and so IS part of your estate if you paid in the moolah

best answer - please
In case you're getting lost here, Sire, the general rule is that money held in a joint account automatically passes to the sole survivor upon the death of the other account holder. That occurs 'outside' of any will that the deceased person may have left. (i.e. it goes to the surviving account holder before the will comes into play and therefore can't be left to anyone else, irrespective of what might have been written in the will).

However, as Peter P points out, there are circumstances where a court may rule that the general rule should not be allowed to apply:
https://www.gadlegal.co.uk/news/elder-law/the-inherent-dangers-of-joint-bank-accounts

With regard to Inheritance Tax though, half of the money (in most cases) in a joint account counts forms part of a deceased person's estate unless the account holders were spouses or civil partners. In certain circumstances though it's possible that all of the money in a joint account might count towards any liability for Inheritance Tax:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/wealthcheck/article-6565421/Is-money-held-mums-joint-bank-account-late-nan-subject-IHT.html
No we are the ones getting lost
he specifically asks about whether the money is counted as part of his estate
not which lucky holder gets it or .... or whether it is subject to a will

and the leading case still is Northall
from Chris ref

If the money came entirely from your grandmother, then HMRC could consider the entire value of her account to be part of her estate, thus making it liable for inheritance tax.

really seems to settle it
BUT chris article is worf a read for all of us
and please pay attention to the banner at the head of these threads

'Please pay bear in mind that the people contributing here may really be full of crap and you need to pay a tax lawyer for proper advice. Do not mistake posts as proper or even remotely correct legal advice' - - or something to that effect
Peter Peter kissy kissy you must prove presumption of advancement.

If Sire and his cohort have been crediting the account together, then its up to HMRC to prove presumption of advancement. If Sire has sold his house with room for a pony and placed the moolah in a joint account with his son, to perhaps circumnavigate Inheritance Tax, then yes HMRC will come a calling. If Sires son is adding funds to the account regularly from his wages then that's a different scenario.
// I need a new laptop!//

This is Law not chatterbank. Grow up.
thank you
joint accounts and advancement is here
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/8-524-4292?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true#co_pageContainer

and the leading case is

(Bingham v HMRC [2013] UKFTT 110 (TC)).

which I will go and have a read of
erm - - it is an income tax case

https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2013/TC02528.html

I wondered why it wasnt in the discussions on Northall .....
and Jesus as a tax case = get it wrong and go to appeal and this happens

"The hearing of this appeal occupied some 3½ days. 5 full ring binders of pleadings and evidence were presented in substantially agreed bundles. 2 further full ring binders of legal citations were also placed before the tribunal."

more moolah for the loolas ( er lawyers that is)
Question Author
Gordon Bennett. I really started something didn't I? And it was such a simple question to start with. I'm no clearer now than I was when I started!! All I wanted was a simple answer in words of one syllable that I could understand; not a lot of legal jargon.
It might help us to know WHY the question is important to you, Sire.

For example, if you've not only got a son but a daughter, and you want them both to end up with equal amounts after you've passed away, then a will which simply states "I leave my estate in equal shares to my son and my daughter" will be flawed because your son will actually end up with more money. (i.e. he'd get your half of what's in the joint account plus half of your house but your daughter would only get half of the house). That's because, as far as your will is concerned, what you've got in the joint account does NOT form part of your estate.

However as far as HMRC is concerned, a half (usually) of the money in the joint account DOES form part of your estate when calculating how much Inheritance Tax (if any) is due.

So there's no simple 'Yes' or 'No' answer to your question. The answer depends upon why you're asking it.
If may appear to be legal jargon but it is very important.

If you're none the wiser, seek legal advice from a solicitor.

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