P M Qs..... The Understudies.... Usual...
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Conservation Area and its impact.
9 Answers
The scenario: A shop with metal security shutters sits in a street just outside the CA.
A planning application has been submitted for change of use with minimal alteration to the front of the property.
The Local Authority are considering extending the CA, and these proposals will now include this shop.
Negotiations about the project have been undertaken and it has been agreed, by the client via me, that these shutters (which are a bit grim looking and in need of quite a bit of tlc) will be replaced by the more open 'brickwork-bond' style.
My client has just contacted me to say that the cost of doing this is prohibitive and that he will repair/restore the existing shutters, instead.
I now have to pass this on to the Planning Department.
My dilemma : If the shop had continued to trade, the CA schedule would have had to include these shutters, and I do not believe that the LA could ask the owners to replace them with something more visually appealing.
Our proposals now do *not* include these shutters in any way, bar hiding the shutter box in a new fascia.
Can the LA insist that these shutters are replaced by ones more inkeeping with a CA Schedule that actually hasn't happened yet?!?
Thanks in advance.
A planning application has been submitted for change of use with minimal alteration to the front of the property.
The Local Authority are considering extending the CA, and these proposals will now include this shop.
Negotiations about the project have been undertaken and it has been agreed, by the client via me, that these shutters (which are a bit grim looking and in need of quite a bit of tlc) will be replaced by the more open 'brickwork-bond' style.
My client has just contacted me to say that the cost of doing this is prohibitive and that he will repair/restore the existing shutters, instead.
I now have to pass this on to the Planning Department.
My dilemma : If the shop had continued to trade, the CA schedule would have had to include these shutters, and I do not believe that the LA could ask the owners to replace them with something more visually appealing.
Our proposals now do *not* include these shutters in any way, bar hiding the shutter box in a new fascia.
Can the LA insist that these shutters are replaced by ones more inkeeping with a CA Schedule that actually hasn't happened yet?!?
Thanks in advance.
Answers
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If the building is Listed, Jack, that would be a whole other story. The existing shutters would, in my experience, be considered part of the Listing, and so be retained.
Assuming it's not listed. Again, only from my own experience, I can't imagine how the LA could possibly impose their "preference" on a building of no great historical importance even if it were already in a CA. The fact that it is outside the CA, I don't see that they would be at all interested legally.
Assuming it's not listed. Again, only from my own experience, I can't imagine how the LA could possibly impose their "preference" on a building of no great historical importance even if it were already in a CA. The fact that it is outside the CA, I don't see that they would be at all interested legally.
Thanks, TB.
In all honesty the fact that this area falls under any sort of CA schedule is a bit barking!! It is a street exclusively given over to pubs, clubs and takeaways...
The LA wanted internal security shutters but I think I managed to persuade them that burglaries would not be the problem, drunken vandalism would and so external shutters should be allowed.
I just fear that the entire scheme will get knocked-back because of this issue, but want to know if it is reasonable for us to argue that it is beyond their remit to insist we *must* change something outside of the application parameters to fit in with a CA Schedule that, whilst in the pipeline, hasn't actually happened yet?
My brain is starting to hurt.............:o)
In all honesty the fact that this area falls under any sort of CA schedule is a bit barking!! It is a street exclusively given over to pubs, clubs and takeaways...
The LA wanted internal security shutters but I think I managed to persuade them that burglaries would not be the problem, drunken vandalism would and so external shutters should be allowed.
I just fear that the entire scheme will get knocked-back because of this issue, but want to know if it is reasonable for us to argue that it is beyond their remit to insist we *must* change something outside of the application parameters to fit in with a CA Schedule that, whilst in the pipeline, hasn't actually happened yet?
My brain is starting to hurt.............:o)
I'm not surprised it's hurting :o(
I'd be inclined to go with your take on the issue, and pursue it as you see it. Talking to Planners will probably only make your head hurt even more. You only seem to get a definitive view if it's a situation they can take "from the book" so to speak. Grey areas, as you know, freak them out. They would be bound to "play safe".
What I've done in these cases is to have a quick call/email to a Planning Consultant. They tend to be ex-planning officers. They know the wrinkles. The one I use often only bills me if she has to actually get active. She will often just give me her take on a situation off the top of her head. Just the kind of informed view that you need.
If you do go for one, I like "one-man-bands", as it were. You would be a good contact and source of future work for such a consultant.
I'd love to know how it develops.
I'd be inclined to go with your take on the issue, and pursue it as you see it. Talking to Planners will probably only make your head hurt even more. You only seem to get a definitive view if it's a situation they can take "from the book" so to speak. Grey areas, as you know, freak them out. They would be bound to "play safe".
What I've done in these cases is to have a quick call/email to a Planning Consultant. They tend to be ex-planning officers. They know the wrinkles. The one I use often only bills me if she has to actually get active. She will often just give me her take on a situation off the top of her head. Just the kind of informed view that you need.
If you do go for one, I like "one-man-bands", as it were. You would be a good contact and source of future work for such a consultant.
I'd love to know how it develops.
Jack - did the shutters have planning permission in the first place? If not, because you are making an application for a change of use of the shop, the planners have to take the opportunity to regularise the situation with the shutters, and are obviously going to ask for something in keeping with the area. if the shutters have permission, and aren't affected by the proposal at all, they can't ask you to change them because the conservation area doesn't apply retrospectively to works already done. So a little more info on the planning history would be useful please.
bushbaby - My client has only recently taken over the leasehold of these premises but the shop has been trading, with these shutters, for, at least, the past 10 years. I am unable to determine their approved/unapproved status, at present.
Our initial proposals included remodelling of the shopfront; fitting uPVC windows and repositioning the door. However, my client has decided to give the woodwork a spit and polish and leave it all as existing. The only proposed change is altering/extending the fascia so that it conceals the shutter-boxes, the provision of illuminated lighting and the addition of a 'pigs-ear' advertising sign.
The shutters are to remain completely untouched in our new proposals.
After agreeing with my client on Monday that he would fit 'open-style' shutters and amending the plans accordingly (which, naturally, I have submitted) he contacted me yesterday to say that he had changed his mind.
If I allow the application to proceed to Approval, the drawings will carry the note about these shutters, thereby obliging my client to undertake the change.
I am happy to give you further information, if you require it.
Many thanks.
Our initial proposals included remodelling of the shopfront; fitting uPVC windows and repositioning the door. However, my client has decided to give the woodwork a spit and polish and leave it all as existing. The only proposed change is altering/extending the fascia so that it conceals the shutter-boxes, the provision of illuminated lighting and the addition of a 'pigs-ear' advertising sign.
The shutters are to remain completely untouched in our new proposals.
After agreeing with my client on Monday that he would fit 'open-style' shutters and amending the plans accordingly (which, naturally, I have submitted) he contacted me yesterday to say that he had changed his mind.
If I allow the application to proceed to Approval, the drawings will carry the note about these shutters, thereby obliging my client to undertake the change.
I am happy to give you further information, if you require it.
Many thanks.
Thankyou both for your good advice, however.............
Somewhat unexpectedly I received the Consent via e-mail this afternoon!!!
With not a mention of the shutters......and 11 days before the declared decision date!
Heaven preserve us from these capricious Planners! LoL
TB - I took your advice and spent some while this morning talking this project over with a very nice Planning Consultant! He was most helpful although as subsequent events turned out (with the notice arriving, etc) his input was not required...............at this stage, at least. :o)
Thankyou both for your assistance.
Somewhat unexpectedly I received the Consent via e-mail this afternoon!!!
With not a mention of the shutters......and 11 days before the declared decision date!
Heaven preserve us from these capricious Planners! LoL
TB - I took your advice and spent some while this morning talking this project over with a very nice Planning Consultant! He was most helpful although as subsequent events turned out (with the notice arriving, etc) his input was not required...............at this stage, at least. :o)
Thankyou both for your assistance.
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