More Proof That We're All Migrants Whether We Like It Or Not!

[Mosaic]

There's been lots of debate in 2015 about Europe being swamped by migrants. Evidence is now backing up hypotheses that mass migration has been a regular, formative event.
Coming over here, bringing their farming and their bronze...... Media URL: http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/winter-2015-2016/article/scientists-sequence-first-ancient-irish-human-genomes
Description:

[Mosaic]

There's acres of countryside round these parts Mushroom - some of it's a bit soggy just now....
I dunno though - maybe it's the model of expansion that's envisaged. In land of similar temperature and rainfall, other parts of the world manage good crop yields....does all population expansion mean building another version of South Woodham Ferrers or is there a different model that works better environmentally?

[mushroom25]

there's a lot of countryside in the national parks too mosaic. are you saying that unbridled immigration shall always take precedence over the environment?

[Baldric]

What on Earth has that got to do with the present mass invasion by a predominantly Muslim population intent on taking over the West by any means necessary. It 's certainly a new approach from an apologist viewpoint but no more convincing than any of their other verbal diarrhea.

[douglas9401]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certificate_of_Sixth_Year_Studies

Don't forget to leave time to discuss the benefits of socialism on society and how drugs should all be legalised.

Other common room topics are available.

[KARL]

Mosaic, I have, over the past year or so, occasionally looked in on threads like this one and the "debate" seems to me to have been between two entrenched sides all along and not noticeably changed the perspective of any of the familiar players - just like the religion, god-or-no-god discussions. Unfortunately, I suspect that xenophobia ("us" and "them") and worse is too large a factor in the motivation of some individuals. In particular, the suggestion that everyone just wants to attach themselves to a benefit teat is as wrong about migrants as it is about indigenous populations. Examples can be found in both groups and they will continue to arise but they are a minority and insisting that they (both) be held up to scrutiny is something I would support. Supporting people until they are on their feet is what the system should be about, but that is where definitions (and discussions) start to fray.

Just as a by the way, because the UK wantonly spends its resources on joining the USA in foreign adventures, it may well have little to spare for actually helping others - and thus might be classed as a poor country compared to others in Europe. The discussion on how foreigners are trying to drain the lifeblood out of the UK is held up as an argument for using them for target practice (yes, saw that in one of these threads) but there appears to be no suggestion that the wisdom of spending fortunes on invading and occupying other faraway countries is remotely worth an iota of self-doubt or criticism.

[Ellipsis]

The UK is the most densely populated large country in Europe - more than twice as densely populated as France, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_and_population_of_European_countries

In addition, the UK has the second highest migrant population of any country in Europe, and also the second highest percentage of migrants:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_immigrant_population

So I don't think the UK does too badly when it comes to migrants, but the issue is population density. This is worse in England than anywhere else. Comparing England to the rest of the UK:

In mid-2013 the population density of England was 413 people per sq km compared with 149 people per sq km in Wales and 135 people per sq km in Northern Ireland. Scotland has the lowest population density at 68 people per sq km.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/compendiums/compendium-of-uk-statistics/population-and-migration/index.html

The same data also shows that England accounts for the vast majority of migration into the UK.

So let's not have any "xenophobic" comments ... England is among the best in the world at accepting migrants, even though the country is densely populated.

[TWR]

Mosaic, quick Q, what is the size of the UK?

[Baldric]

TWR, see 8th entry on this list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_and_population_of_European_countries#Countries_and_dependencies

[Zacs-Master]

Mosaic, you're not making any sense. You're jumping around from the instigation of farming in this country 7000 years ago to population densities, crop efficiency, models of efficiency etc. I can see a tenuous link but at the moment your thesis is at best a D+ due to its poorly explained links and lack of a clearly thought thru thought process.

[Mosaic]

Some interesting contributions here.
Thanks for the link Douglas, I've never taught in the Scottish system and am unfamiliar with its terminologies. Had to chuckle at your remarks on socialism, what with the Scottish link n all. Cos it's well known that nobody relies on benefits north of The Wall....oops yes they do.

Mushroom, the thing about migration control is very interesting - would you say it's working at present? It strikes me that every continent is experiencing something similar and even places like Australia, surrounded by ocean, is constantly 'repelling boarders'.

Baldric, for all we know the mass invasions of prehistory may also have been accompanied by religious dogma, forced conversions, beheadings and general frightfulness. Then again they may not. Just as not all migrants leaving via the mideast at present are muslim, jihadis or bad sorts. But some are.

I'll hold my hand up to lateral thinking Zacs. I find one of the best ways to tackle a problem is look at many angles rather than try to bludgeon it to a linear death.
It's sad to see the usual outpouring of personal spleen. None of us is all-knowing. Everyone can be wrong - or right.

Surely it's of interest irrespective of modern political stances to see actual empirical evidence showing that it's all happened before, that these turning points are part of human development, and that each one of us comes from a lineage that was created through mass migration.

Thanks Karl, a cool contribution in every sense.

[Svejk]

/// Everyone can be wrong ///
But you're abusing the privilege, mosaic.

[Mosaic]

This from the poster who supported Assad without knowing he's a Leninist....

[KARL]

Ellipsis, unless incorrect statistics are being published then you are wrong - see this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_and_population_of_European_countries.

My guess is that you are English and living in England (or foreign and don't know the difference) - did you mean England when you said UK ?

[Togo]

What Mosaic is therefor implying, is that as migrants thousands of years ago, we are not entitled to disagree with millions of immigrants who want to further migrate themselves.

[Ellipsis]

No Karl - please read my full post. I think it was clear, but if you'd like to explain where you think it was wrong I'll be happy to look into it.

[Mosaic]

No Togo, that isn't what I'm saying. What I'm in favour of is a longer perspective on current events.

[Svejk]

Mosaic ///This from the poster who supported Assad without knowing he's a Leninist.... ///

Now you're just making random crap up.
Show me where I've mentioned Assad's political leanings.

[Zacs-Master]

A longer perspective on common sense. All 7 millennia of it.

[KARL]

Apologies Ellipsis, skimming is a risky approach - you are correct, "large country" being the operative in the opening sentence.

[Ellipsis]

Thanks :)