Sorry...still Confused

[Sqad]

This is not another "foodbank" thread or indeed political. just a point that I need clearing up, which hasn't been satisfactorily answered.

I was brought up in the post WW2 years and things for the poor, working class,call them whatever you will...was tough.
There were minimal benefits for the poor and one had to grit one's teeth sometimes to eek out a living to feed and clothe one's children.

60 years on, there are far more benefits for the poor, foodbanks have arrived to feed the needy and we are. or I am led to believe that now we are better off than our grandparents (my era)

To me, over 60 years, the plight of the poor seems to be WORSE than in the 1950's.

Is it, are they and why should it be?

During that time we have seen Socialist and Conservative Governments and yet it would appear ( based on the emergence of foodbanks) that a 2 year Coalition government seems to be taking the blame.

[boxtops]

Sqad, I guess I'm your era too.....

People are FAR more materialistic now. We didn't have things we couldn't afford, my father saved up for stuff, there was no credit in our hours. We didn't have a TV or a fridge until I was 14, we made our own entertainment. The highlight of my entertainment was a little radio with earphones that Dad bought me one Christmas, then we were elevated to an electronic record player (as opposed to the previous windup one that only played 78s!). Not everyone had a phone in the house, nobody needed to be instantly contactable.

People's expectations are different now. If my dad wasn't working he'd go and dig his allotment, he wouldn't have dreamed of sitting around all day watching Sky.

We certainly didn't have the lavish Christmases and birthdays that some people feel they owe to their children now. Priorities were very different.

[Sqad]

boxy....of course you are right, but expectations should be based upon hard work, opportunities and the development of a fair and yet affluent society.

One can argue whether it s fair, but it is now certainly more affluent which makes it more surprising that we see the plight of the underprivileged.

[jake-the-peg]

Seems slightly lower now

2011 figure seems to be about 5% compared to 6.4% in 53/54

low point 73 with .2%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_Kingdom#Historical_statistics_on_poverty

But the data is confusing and complicated

Poverty is not an absolute but relative measurement households with income below 60% of the median (average)

What has happened over the last 50-60 years is that noyt just the gap between richest and poorest has grown but the numbers in the lowest tranche has grown

We've become a more fragmented society in terms of earnings and that has partly driven social seperations and you see that reflected in poverty figures


In this recession fewer people have been made unemployed but prices have risen way faster than incomes have for many people so there have been a lot of people living on the edge who are now badly struggling.

Hence the rise of payday lenders, foodbanks etc.

[boxtops]

It is very sad but we have bred a generation of people when many don't work at all - they are better off on the State. It sets such a poor example to their children and grandchildren, who don't know any different.

[Butterbun]

I also think that the cigarettes and beers are bought in before food items. One woman I saw collecting supplies had perfectly manicured and polished nails. I know people can do this at home, but she looked like she had just stepped out of a nail bar. Folk get their priorities the wrong way round these days.

[woofgang]

I agree.....but its also society's expectations as well as the individual.

[jake-the-peg]

Basically you can work as hard as you like but you don't get what you deserve in this life - you get what you negotiate

And a lot of people are not in a good negotiating position

[boxtops]

I don't expect that anyone expects me to be perfectly groomed etc all the time, and in the latest fashions (well, tough luck if they do). I'd rather eat than have my nails done, if I had to choose.

[Sqad]

JTP

\\But the data is confusing and complicated \\

and may even be misleading.......but your point is well taken

\\\What has happened over the last 50-60 years is that noyt just the gap between richest and poorest has grown but the numbers in the lowest tranche has grown \\\

Exactly.........but it was my understating that in a philanthropic society as we Brits always maintain, this is clearly an odd development.

[Everhelpful]

Totally agree with Sqad and boxtops,trouble is now Credit Cards,etc. are so easy to get and people spend on them not caring about paying them back,in my day,same as Sqad and boxtops,the only Credit you could get was a Provident Ticket where your spending was strictly limited.

[woofgang]

boxy, i wasn't talking about the nail grooming (which wasn't there when i posted) but about the fact that people can now be considered poor if they don't have such things as running hot water, central heating, an inside loo. Growing up I had none of these and we didn't think that we were poor.

[Sqad]

Well, I look forward to the abolition of foodbanks when the economy has been turned around, either by left or right wing Political persuasions, but i will not hold my breath.

[leahbee]

Squad, I believe that expectations are much higher now. When we got married we did'nt expect to have washing machines , fridges 3 piece suites and such. W had to save up for these luxuries and probably appreciated them more because of that. Now some people expect these things as a right and cause a real stink if they don't get them. They almost always have the largest TV and computer equipment.
I will never forget my mother (RIP) getting new curtains when I was young and she hung them at the windows with the pattern on the outside when she was asked why she said how else will the neighbours know we have new curtains.
She brought eight of us up on next to nothing, drunken father, and no help from the state.
We did get one pair of shoes each year from the Cinderella Club.
I am not moaning we were taught right from wrong and if you wanted anything you had to work for it.
Nowadays it seems that if you can get it for nothing that's the way to go. And the big problem now is that they do.

[Sqad]

leahbee

\\\She brought eight of us up on next to nothing, drunken father, and no help from the state. \\\

and yet, still no foodbanks eh!

[sandyRoe]

There were food banks then but not well publicised. I remember when we were little my brother and I went with mum to an office in Belfast where Ladies Bountiful gave us two cardboard boxes full of tinned goods.

[friedgreentomato]

living in poverty for 1 parent and 1 child is defined at £168.80 after housing, childcare and council tax costs.

To be above poverty after those costs £284.57 is required

[Old_Geezer]

I suspect "seems" was the vital word in your OP.
Folk expect more provided just for existing, these days.

[Ric.ror]

One question I always asked my father (grhs) was if they were ever hungry during the war - he said there was always something even if it was just a slice of bread but people were far more careful then with leftovers etc

[ummmm]

There were food banks. My nan (Belfast) was often fed and clothed by the church.