Body & Soul2 mins ago
When Did He Become Scared For Life?
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Was it after the first time or the fiftieth? Im sorry but it just doesn't wash. Yes it was very wrong and she should be sacked, but abuse? He was 15, come on, he must have thought all his Christmases had come at once.
Was it after the first time or the fiftieth? Im sorry but it just doesn't wash. Yes it was very wrong and she should be sacked, but abuse? He was 15, come on, he must have thought all his Christmases had come at once.
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andy.....we are in quite a different ethos in which i was educated.
Let me tell you a story.
This summer, we had breakfast with a head teacher of a large comprehensive school and his wife and conversation came around to "sex in the classroom".
He took classes of pupils, mixed of around 14-16 yrs of age and in doing so had to be "extra careful" in his actions.
One day, an incident not that unusual, a 15 year pld girl on the front row, sat in a provocative position with thighs abducted and her knickers plainly visible. She then, after getting this teachers attention said in a loud voice for all the class to hear:
"Fancy a s.hag Sir?
Now these are the standards that prevail in many schools and it looks as though there is dissemination to the teaching staff.
Yes, it is wrong and a position of responsibility is just that........however the human aspect, the standards of discipline prevailing at the present time need consideration, even though it entails "barrack room humour."
Let me tell you a story.
This summer, we had breakfast with a head teacher of a large comprehensive school and his wife and conversation came around to "sex in the classroom".
He took classes of pupils, mixed of around 14-16 yrs of age and in doing so had to be "extra careful" in his actions.
One day, an incident not that unusual, a 15 year pld girl on the front row, sat in a provocative position with thighs abducted and her knickers plainly visible. She then, after getting this teachers attention said in a loud voice for all the class to hear:
"Fancy a s.hag Sir?
Now these are the standards that prevail in many schools and it looks as though there is dissemination to the teaching staff.
Yes, it is wrong and a position of responsibility is just that........however the human aspect, the standards of discipline prevailing at the present time need consideration, even though it entails "barrack room humour."
ric ror......I am not saying that any combination is acceptable, but I am saying that there is a rational argument for the attitude of "barrack room humour."
\\Ok Sqad so are you saying its acceptable for a 20+ female teacher and a 15 year old male pupil but not for a male teacher and male pupil \\\\
Exactly.
\\Ok Sqad so are you saying its acceptable for a 20+ female teacher and a 15 year old male pupil but not for a male teacher and male pupil \\\\
Exactly.
Nobody is saying that it was all right to do anything here, I think we are just saying that the lad has most likely not suffered at all. Yes it would be different id the sexes were reversed, but that is not the case, a female would most likely never have lived it down and could well have scarred her, but that is not the case here!
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It matters not whether it is Male/malepupil, male/femalepupil,Femal.malepupil, Female/femalepupil. The bottom line is the adult is in a position of trust and so is very wrong.
However this does not mean the 'pupil' if not forced, whatever gender, has not had some enjoyment out of it.
This is particularly the case with young boys, although with changing times girls are also not far behind. Pupils may of course not be so keen on bragging about a homosexual encounter since this would not be greeted with quite the same enthusiasm by peers as many teenagers dont subscribe to right-on views and laws.
However this does not mean the 'pupil' if not forced, whatever gender, has not had some enjoyment out of it.
This is particularly the case with young boys, although with changing times girls are also not far behind. Pupils may of course not be so keen on bragging about a homosexual encounter since this would not be greeted with quite the same enthusiasm by peers as many teenagers dont subscribe to right-on views and laws.
The reason I ask is many years ago I remember the age of consent was being discussed on Question Time. One of the guests speakers said he believed the age of consent between two men should remain slightly higher as older gay men where renowned predators on young teenage men. The implication was it was because of the actually act itself and we should protect teenagers.
Re. Sqad's story about bad girls in the classroom - not at all to detract from his friend's accuracy as a source, but this tale is repeated frequently. It probably has happened many times.
Making comments of a sexual nature is done to control the teacher. It has been done by boys for ages. I would suggest this was poor classroom technique from the headteacher in question, who should have a range of skills and put downs at his disposal to deal with a naughty disruptive girl. Certainly paid enough to do it! ('Jennie - I'm seeing next week's washing....' or 'I'd like everyone sitting straight and paying attention, inlcuding you Jennie' etc etc)
Also, as young women are encouraged to be sex objects, and at the same time are encouraged to be sexually empowered, it's inevitable that this will include this kind of aberrant behaviour.
Back to the OP though - youngsters may talk tough but still have hearts of glass, whether they can afford a good lawyer or not. So the law's there to try to save them from harm till they're old enough to cope with it.
Making comments of a sexual nature is done to control the teacher. It has been done by boys for ages. I would suggest this was poor classroom technique from the headteacher in question, who should have a range of skills and put downs at his disposal to deal with a naughty disruptive girl. Certainly paid enough to do it! ('Jennie - I'm seeing next week's washing....' or 'I'd like everyone sitting straight and paying attention, inlcuding you Jennie' etc etc)
Also, as young women are encouraged to be sex objects, and at the same time are encouraged to be sexually empowered, it's inevitable that this will include this kind of aberrant behaviour.
Back to the OP though - youngsters may talk tough but still have hearts of glass, whether they can afford a good lawyer or not. So the law's there to try to save them from harm till they're old enough to cope with it.
"I think the point here is that she was in a position of trust and she abused that position - would I have wanted her to teach my boys - never in a million years".
Thank you for making that point, RicRor. [I see a second poster has just reiterated the point while I was writing this].
Most correspondents on this thread have been arguing whether or to what degree this sexual relationship constituted "abuse". You've raised the important principle of professional integrity. If a GP has an affair with a patient he has betrayed the trust the whole public has put in him; it is irrelevant whether the patient is a willing party to that betrayal.
Thank you for making that point, RicRor. [I see a second poster has just reiterated the point while I was writing this].
Most correspondents on this thread have been arguing whether or to what degree this sexual relationship constituted "abuse". You've raised the important principle of professional integrity. If a GP has an affair with a patient he has betrayed the trust the whole public has put in him; it is irrelevant whether the patient is a willing party to that betrayal.
Sqad, re. extenuating circumstances.....clearly the jury thought so in this case. I don't agree with their verdict.
However a similar breach of professionalism was not held against the late Chris Woodhead, who as a teacher had an affair with a pupil (17 year old girl).
I think the jury may have been blinded by the kind of gender-related issues talked about here ie 'a lad would enjoy it'
Maybe there's a lesson to learn about anonymity: if both victim and perpetrator were anonymised it would perhaps make the facts clearer.
Another concern I have about this case is that the perpetrator seems to have deliberately chosen a job in an area some 30 min drive from her home. This is unusual for a relatively low-paid job such as TA. Most TA's are employed 'round the corner'. Could it be that this is a predatory paedophile who has deliberately targeted a large school in a relatively poor area?
However a similar breach of professionalism was not held against the late Chris Woodhead, who as a teacher had an affair with a pupil (17 year old girl).
I think the jury may have been blinded by the kind of gender-related issues talked about here ie 'a lad would enjoy it'
Maybe there's a lesson to learn about anonymity: if both victim and perpetrator were anonymised it would perhaps make the facts clearer.
Another concern I have about this case is that the perpetrator seems to have deliberately chosen a job in an area some 30 min drive from her home. This is unusual for a relatively low-paid job such as TA. Most TA's are employed 'round the corner'. Could it be that this is a predatory paedophile who has deliberately targeted a large school in a relatively poor area?
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