If You Were Fasting Would You Expect...
Society & Culture3 mins ago
Why Are They So Keen To Leave A 'safe' Country?
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Is this not proof that they are not just poor refugees who are fleeing from their war troubled land, but as most of us have suspected, illegal economic immigrants?
Is this not proof that they are not just poor refugees who are fleeing from their war troubled land, but as most of us have suspected, illegal economic immigrants?
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sandyRoe
/// AOG, once the children on the KIndertransport had left Nazi Germany do you think they should have settle there? In France, or wherever? ///
How could they have settled there (Nazi Germany) if they had already left?
If you mean France, or wherever in Europe and it took place took place during the nine months prior to the outbreak of the Second World War. then at that time there would be other countries that they could have been taken to, but in foresight who at that time would have thought that the Nazis would have swept all over Europe, so yes perhaps it was a good job they chose to repatriate them to Britain.
/// AOG, once the children on the KIndertransport had left Nazi Germany do you think they should have settle there? In France, or wherever? ///
How could they have settled there (Nazi Germany) if they had already left?
If you mean France, or wherever in Europe and it took place took place during the nine months prior to the outbreak of the Second World War. then at that time there would be other countries that they could have been taken to, but in foresight who at that time would have thought that the Nazis would have swept all over Europe, so yes perhaps it was a good job they chose to repatriate them to Britain.
///sandyRoe /// AOG, once the children on the KIndertransport had left Nazi Germany do you think they should have settle there? In France, or wherever?///
For a supposedly intelligent man, that is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen on here. But then, I expect you know that.
Listen up, chaps. Just because the Labour Party have been sending out e-mails exhorting you to mention the kindertransport, doesn't mean you have to make fools of yourselves and do it.
For a supposedly intelligent man, that is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen on here. But then, I expect you know that.
Listen up, chaps. Just because the Labour Party have been sending out e-mails exhorting you to mention the kindertransport, doesn't mean you have to make fools of yourselves and do it.
-- answer removed --
/// They are only in Hungary as it is en route to civilisation ... ///
Surely Hungary is a civilised country? If so they have already reached civilisation.
Why would they stop in Hungary of all places? They could have stopped earlier in Turkey, Serbia etc, which as the Hungarian PM pointed out so charmingly, are also "safe" countries.
It's only reached the news about Hungary because the authorities first of all tried to stop them entering the country, and once they were there tried to stop them leaving.
A warmer welcome and better prospects await further on.
Surely Hungary is a civilised country? If so they have already reached civilisation.
Why would they stop in Hungary of all places? They could have stopped earlier in Turkey, Serbia etc, which as the Hungarian PM pointed out so charmingly, are also "safe" countries.
It's only reached the news about Hungary because the authorities first of all tried to stop them entering the country, and once they were there tried to stop them leaving.
A warmer welcome and better prospects await further on.
On a slight tangent, but I've just heard on 'PM' both Harriet Harman and Alex Salmon attempting to make political capital out of this situation by accusing David Cameron of 'not caring' - despicable tactics! The way they spoke you would think he had actually drowned that poor two-year old with his own bare hands!
Is this the best the left has to offer?
Is this the best the left has to offer?
“A warmer welcome and better prospects await further on.”
I don’t know how many times this has to be said. The destination for these people is not (at this stage anyway) their choice. If they do not claim asylum in the first safe country they reach then any claims they subsequently make are forfeit. If they are not claiming it at all they have no right of abode. The warm welcome and better prospects they crave are not part of the deal. The deal is that they should be sheltered (i.e. given refuge, hence the term refugees) from harm or genuine fear or threat of harm. That’s all.
Hungary is in the EU and is a safe country. Turkey, whilst not in the EU, is also a safe country. The EU needs to ensure that recipient nations impose the rules by processing the migrants on arrival. Most importantly it needs to abandon the Schengen Agreement so that those nations are not able to wave the migrants through to other nations.
The scenes in Hungary demonstrate perfectly that these people are not seeking safety from persecution. Those in Budapest have already achieved that aim (if indeed it ever was their aim in the first place). Those migrants there cut up extremely rough (laying on railway tracks, attacking police) when it became clear that they would not be given free passage to Germany. So I will reiterate: the choice of destination is not an option for these people and the sooner they learn this the better.
I don’t know how many times this has to be said. The destination for these people is not (at this stage anyway) their choice. If they do not claim asylum in the first safe country they reach then any claims they subsequently make are forfeit. If they are not claiming it at all they have no right of abode. The warm welcome and better prospects they crave are not part of the deal. The deal is that they should be sheltered (i.e. given refuge, hence the term refugees) from harm or genuine fear or threat of harm. That’s all.
Hungary is in the EU and is a safe country. Turkey, whilst not in the EU, is also a safe country. The EU needs to ensure that recipient nations impose the rules by processing the migrants on arrival. Most importantly it needs to abandon the Schengen Agreement so that those nations are not able to wave the migrants through to other nations.
The scenes in Hungary demonstrate perfectly that these people are not seeking safety from persecution. Those in Budapest have already achieved that aim (if indeed it ever was their aim in the first place). Those migrants there cut up extremely rough (laying on railway tracks, attacking police) when it became clear that they would not be given free passage to Germany. So I will reiterate: the choice of destination is not an option for these people and the sooner they learn this the better.
ichkeria; My point isn't whether we should take in more or not, but the implication that somehow the government's stance is directly responsible for these deaths to gain some pathetic moral high ground. If the UK said it was prepared to take in more it would have no bearing on what has happened in the Mediterranean.
I don't have direct experience of their e-mails, khandro.
But I know people that have.
Hasn't it struck you as odd that 'they' all came up with the kindertransport meme at the same time.
Same with double-dips, triple-dips and all the other piffle.(which they quietly drop when it doesn't happen before moving en masse to the next meme.)
But I know people that have.
Hasn't it struck you as odd that 'they' all came up with the kindertransport meme at the same time.
Same with double-dips, triple-dips and all the other piffle.(which they quietly drop when it doesn't happen before moving en masse to the next meme.)
svejk; //I think the Germans are trying to ruin Europe//
They may be ruining Europe, but that isn't their intention, this is the most incompetent administration Germany has had since WW2. They actually think they are trying to SAVE Europe. Frau Merkel has completely lost the plot - if indeed she ever had one - She ................ oh god!!! I could go on all night.
They may be ruining Europe, but that isn't their intention, this is the most incompetent administration Germany has had since WW2. They actually think they are trying to SAVE Europe. Frau Merkel has completely lost the plot - if indeed she ever had one - She ................ oh god!!! I could go on all night.
It doesnt help when we keep confusing the African migrants and the Middle East refugees
As for New Judge you can quote rules (of what provenance I am not sure) until you are blue in the face but it won't help.
In fact 'going by the rules' is what Orban claimed to be doing in Hungary. This was the alleged justification for his henchmen (I'm afraid that is what the corrupt Hungarian police amount to) effectively imprisoning refugees in the capital before bowing to the inevitable and letting them go.
What part of 'these people don't want to hang around in Orban's Hungary' do you not understand?
You might not like it but jumping up and down and complaining will not move the situation on. Any more than the futile advice to refugees to stop by in Turkey and Serbia
As for New Judge you can quote rules (of what provenance I am not sure) until you are blue in the face but it won't help.
In fact 'going by the rules' is what Orban claimed to be doing in Hungary. This was the alleged justification for his henchmen (I'm afraid that is what the corrupt Hungarian police amount to) effectively imprisoning refugees in the capital before bowing to the inevitable and letting them go.
What part of 'these people don't want to hang around in Orban's Hungary' do you not understand?
You might not like it but jumping up and down and complaining will not move the situation on. Any more than the futile advice to refugees to stop by in Turkey and Serbia
“As for New Judge you can quote rules (of what provenance I am not sure)..”
On the basis of Article 39 (or it might be 31, cannot remember without looking it up) of the UN’s protocol for the treatment of refugees and the EU’s own (and entirely unnecessary) Dublin Convention. Hungary is simply applying those rules and had all EU nations (particularly Italy) done so at the outset of this fiasco it is less likely that it would have developed as it has.
The migrants in Budapest were not imprisoned. They were perfectly free to leave, only in a direction they did not fancy. Other than that they had to be processed in Hungary in accordance with the rules. I understand perfectly that 'these people don't want to hang around in Orban's Hungary' but as I have explained, the choice of destination (other than whence they came) is not theirs to demand or dictate.
This situation is far more likely to be successfully addressed if the ground rules were made absolutely clear to the migrants (and properly enforced) than if the continent was simply allowed to be invaded by huge chunks of the population of Africa. If 100,000 are admitted it will attract ten times that amount and if they are let in it will attract ten times more. Another solution is necessary.
On the basis of Article 39 (or it might be 31, cannot remember without looking it up) of the UN’s protocol for the treatment of refugees and the EU’s own (and entirely unnecessary) Dublin Convention. Hungary is simply applying those rules and had all EU nations (particularly Italy) done so at the outset of this fiasco it is less likely that it would have developed as it has.
The migrants in Budapest were not imprisoned. They were perfectly free to leave, only in a direction they did not fancy. Other than that they had to be processed in Hungary in accordance with the rules. I understand perfectly that 'these people don't want to hang around in Orban's Hungary' but as I have explained, the choice of destination (other than whence they came) is not theirs to demand or dictate.
This situation is far more likely to be successfully addressed if the ground rules were made absolutely clear to the migrants (and properly enforced) than if the continent was simply allowed to be invaded by huge chunks of the population of Africa. If 100,000 are admitted it will attract ten times that amount and if they are let in it will attract ten times more. Another solution is necessary.
New Judge, the situation in Hungary is entirely the fault of the authorities.
The refugees want to go to Germany: Germany, actually, crucially, wants them. Orban may think he can turn back the tide but he cannot. No other country, so far as I can see, agrees with his policy.
Apart from anything else, it's disrupting life for ordinary Hungarians and others wishing to travel through the country.
(There'll be a few thousand Romanian football fans arriving later presumably as well, for a tense local derby, which won't help!)
The refugees want to go to Germany: Germany, actually, crucially, wants them. Orban may think he can turn back the tide but he cannot. No other country, so far as I can see, agrees with his policy.
Apart from anything else, it's disrupting life for ordinary Hungarians and others wishing to travel through the country.
(There'll be a few thousand Romanian football fans arriving later presumably as well, for a tense local derby, which won't help!)
ichkeria , as usual in your dream world of a big Europe you are ignoring the wider picture, which Hungary is not.
Let this lot though and hundreds of thousands will flood through. Hungary will have a major problem its hands. In addition Hungary can forsee how Europe's face could change big time and Europeans become a minority in their own country. But then I guess you would like that.
If you think letting all these people travel freely is the answer and it will all stop I'm afraid you are seriously deluded. Take your EUSSR tinted specs off and look at the situation rationally.
Let this lot though and hundreds of thousands will flood through. Hungary will have a major problem its hands. In addition Hungary can forsee how Europe's face could change big time and Europeans become a minority in their own country. But then I guess you would like that.
If you think letting all these people travel freely is the answer and it will all stop I'm afraid you are seriously deluded. Take your EUSSR tinted specs off and look at the situation rationally.
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