Football1 min ago
On Holocaust Memorial Day, Why Aren't The German People As A Whole Left With The Same Stigma That British And American People Are Over Slavery?
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Snafu03 - "aren't the extreme left still fond of banding the Nazi slur around at anyone who disagrees with their ideology?"
About as fond as the extreme right are fond of bandying the Communist slur around in the same situation.
As always, extremists should be ignored - attention only encourages them.
About as fond as the extreme right are fond of bandying the Communist slur around in the same situation.
As always, extremists should be ignored - attention only encourages them.
Get all the apologies over in one go, so we can get back to doing bad things in the here and now that our descendants will later have to apologise for.
The thing is, ludwig....slavery has not gone away.
But don't worry our little cotton socks about that, it is more important that we are reminded every now and then that we once took part in this barbaric practice and just as with many things at that time we were very good at it, taking it to new heights.
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However lets not remember any part whatsoever Britain played in ridding slavery from many parts of the world, oh no, that just wouldn't be cricket.
The thing is, ludwig....slavery has not gone away.
But don't worry our little cotton socks about that, it is more important that we are reminded every now and then that we once took part in this barbaric practice and just as with many things at that time we were very good at it, taking it to new heights.
.
However lets not remember any part whatsoever Britain played in ridding slavery from many parts of the world, oh no, that just wouldn't be cricket.
The huge problem that the Germans had after WW2 was that 100,000's came home as defeated war-mongers. Germany invaded most of Europe and committed atrocities wherever they went. They were entirely and completely in the wrong. Not just the Hitler and the Generals but the ordinary soldiers as well.
Also, untold numbers of civilians cooperated quite openly with the Gestapo, in betraying their friends and neighbours as Jews and others, and were thus complicit in the genocide and holocaust. To blame it all on Hitler is just plain wrong.
I am not sure if the German people aren't left with the stigma AOG, but if they aren't, they ruddy well should be, at least a little bit.
It is often said that the Japanese people were not made aware of the atrocities committed by the Japanese in WW2 and in the years leading up to Pearl Harbour, because the truth was not included history books used in schools, although they finally found out.
But the same could not be said about the Germans. No one is expecting the current German population to walk around in sackcloth and ashes, but a little humility wouldn't go amiss.
It was said in the papers these last two days, that part of the resentment of the Greek people towards Germany is down to the appalling way that the German troops behaved during WW2.
Still, as Noel used to say " Lets not be beastly to the Germans"
Also, untold numbers of civilians cooperated quite openly with the Gestapo, in betraying their friends and neighbours as Jews and others, and were thus complicit in the genocide and holocaust. To blame it all on Hitler is just plain wrong.
I am not sure if the German people aren't left with the stigma AOG, but if they aren't, they ruddy well should be, at least a little bit.
It is often said that the Japanese people were not made aware of the atrocities committed by the Japanese in WW2 and in the years leading up to Pearl Harbour, because the truth was not included history books used in schools, although they finally found out.
But the same could not be said about the Germans. No one is expecting the current German population to walk around in sackcloth and ashes, but a little humility wouldn't go amiss.
It was said in the papers these last two days, that part of the resentment of the Greek people towards Germany is down to the appalling way that the German troops behaved during WW2.
Still, as Noel used to say " Lets not be beastly to the Germans"
Where is this 'Stigma' manifest aog?
Are there memorials, maybe museums of African slavery or colonial pillage and slaughter, or maybe monuments to the British colonist contribution to the genocide of the native American population? .... these crimes are the basis of our contemporary wealth and privilege .
The Germans gained little financially over the slaughter of the Jews, "but it was somebody else's crime and not a lot we could do about it..." so huge outrage, commemoration, studies and memory: but 'our crimes' are not topics for polite discussion, albeit their bearing on our current status was crucial.
As can be seen already on this thread, some 'interpretations' of history are less palatable
https:/
Are there memorials, maybe museums of African slavery or colonial pillage and slaughter, or maybe monuments to the British colonist contribution to the genocide of the native American population? .... these crimes are the basis of our contemporary wealth and privilege .
The Germans gained little financially over the slaughter of the Jews, "but it was somebody else's crime and not a lot we could do about it..." so huge outrage, commemoration, studies and memory: but 'our crimes' are not topics for polite discussion, albeit their bearing on our current status was crucial.
As can be seen already on this thread, some 'interpretations' of history are less palatable
https:/
Lived in Germany between 92 and 97, despite the military post I had and still have many German friends and acquaintances.
Do they feel the stigma, yes, but not as a nation, the feel the past as individuals and as families because there are very very few German families who have NO links to the war and the holocaust in terms of grandparents and great grandparents. They all know what their predecessors did and they continue to pay for that every single time anyone else mentions it on an international scale. The have their own ways of dealing with it rather than highlighting their predecessors errors, we generally point fingers forgetting our own sordid past, concentration camps through the Boer Wars, slavery.. building an emipre.....
Do they feel the stigma, yes, but not as a nation, the feel the past as individuals and as families because there are very very few German families who have NO links to the war and the holocaust in terms of grandparents and great grandparents. They all know what their predecessors did and they continue to pay for that every single time anyone else mentions it on an international scale. The have their own ways of dealing with it rather than highlighting their predecessors errors, we generally point fingers forgetting our own sordid past, concentration camps through the Boer Wars, slavery.. building an emipre.....
Are you saying I should acknowledge responsibility, 7op? The average life expectancy in Merthyr was 17 in 1850. Nasty, short and brutal lives and by no means remarkable for the time. You might just as well ask me to acknowledge Zulu crimes against other African tribes. I have the same responsibility.
Svejk, I do not hold anyone guilty or responsible for anything outwith their influence. Acknowledging something merely recognises its existence, how that 'knowledge' affects us is a matter of personal conscience.
I am glad life expectancy has improved greatly, hopefully the recording of History will some day show such an improvement.
I am glad life expectancy has improved greatly, hopefully the recording of History will some day show such an improvement.
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