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What Is Other Ab Members Opinion?
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I am not commenting, just want others views.
I am not commenting, just want others views.
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I was in Iran from before their revolution started, through it, and a year afterward. I then spent a further three years there 25 years later. What struck me during the revolution itself was the simplistic approach of those who supported the move and I spoke to: A lot were thrilled by the promised prospect of X million/billion (in any currency you care to choose) that the upper echelons were said to be swallowing becoming available to be divided per head of population once they were thrown out - I seem to remember tens of thousands of dollars p.a. for every man, woman and child being asserted. Most of the rest were motivated by vague concepts of us-and-them matters where the government and their nearest were placed in cahoots with foreigners to bleed the country for their personal gain. Conspiracy theories and quite outrageous word of mouth ones boiled furiously in pre-social media times. Strictly speaking, there was very possibly/likely some truth somewhere in parts of this. The process was horrendously brutal and the post-revolutionary reality was dramatically different from what pretty much every member of the ordinary public expected.
On my more recent visit I found much what I expected, widespread cynicism, disappointment and disrespect for "the system" - by the word "respect" I mean its fundamental meaning, not the one that is a synonym for "fear". There was, and I believe still is, no substantial mood for a counter revolution - it was too painful last time and is still remembered, plus the present ruling class has power firmly in their grip.
Although my chances of surviving to witness 25 years of post-Brexit are slim, it would be interesting to be able to make a comparison and discover whether everything has gone as well as was/is expected/promised (by Brexiteers). Also, a fascinating unknown today is whether the UK's physical position in Europe will then be reflected in its socio-political position toward and compared to the strikingly more integrated/united Europe which is proposed/expected to come about. Will the UK, if it then still exists, be an island in every respect, defiantly separate, uncooperative and different ? Better is by definition different, different need not at all mean better.
On my more recent visit I found much what I expected, widespread cynicism, disappointment and disrespect for "the system" - by the word "respect" I mean its fundamental meaning, not the one that is a synonym for "fear". There was, and I believe still is, no substantial mood for a counter revolution - it was too painful last time and is still remembered, plus the present ruling class has power firmly in their grip.
Although my chances of surviving to witness 25 years of post-Brexit are slim, it would be interesting to be able to make a comparison and discover whether everything has gone as well as was/is expected/promised (by Brexiteers). Also, a fascinating unknown today is whether the UK's physical position in Europe will then be reflected in its socio-political position toward and compared to the strikingly more integrated/united Europe which is proposed/expected to come about. Will the UK, if it then still exists, be an island in every respect, defiantly separate, uncooperative and different ? Better is by definition different, different need not at all mean better.
Well blow me down with a feather.
Remainers think the majority of people didn't know what they were voting for or were hoodwinked or are racist or are stupid or are knuckle dragging little Englanders or need to be spoon fed by the knowitalls or any number of other descriptions of Brexiteers.
The markets will crash, trade will suddenly stop, the economy will plunge into a depression, the NHS will come to a shuddering halt, employment law will devolve back to Victorian equivalents, there will be no one to pour the coffee or Eastern Europe nannies, we will run out of fuel, food, money in weeks, the country will be plunged into civil war, research and collaboration will no longer exist, holidays will be more expensive, customs and boarders will be longer than 'my' family will want to wait.
Have I missed anything out? Probably. Over the past few years just about everything has been said against Brexit.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to campaign on its behalf so Remainers or more to the point remoaners can chug along as much as they like.
Brexit is not the wrong decision until proved otherwise and I'm afraid it hasn't been proved.
Remainers think the majority of people didn't know what they were voting for or were hoodwinked or are racist or are stupid or are knuckle dragging little Englanders or need to be spoon fed by the knowitalls or any number of other descriptions of Brexiteers.
The markets will crash, trade will suddenly stop, the economy will plunge into a depression, the NHS will come to a shuddering halt, employment law will devolve back to Victorian equivalents, there will be no one to pour the coffee or Eastern Europe nannies, we will run out of fuel, food, money in weeks, the country will be plunged into civil war, research and collaboration will no longer exist, holidays will be more expensive, customs and boarders will be longer than 'my' family will want to wait.
Have I missed anything out? Probably. Over the past few years just about everything has been said against Brexit.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to campaign on its behalf so Remainers or more to the point remoaners can chug along as much as they like.
Brexit is not the wrong decision until proved otherwise and I'm afraid it hasn't been proved.
So Karl's experience of Iran should be used as a template for doing nothing? Is that what your saying? Not quite sure.
It is a given that after Brexit not everyone will be happy with the resulting negotiation of interests but the difference between Iran and us is that we are not in the same position as they were.
The 'civil unrest' in terms of voting shows not that people generally think the elite are as bad as say the Iranian government of that time but our elite just don't listen properly. They haven't managed to brainwash enough people yet.
It is a given that after Brexit not everyone will be happy with the resulting negotiation of interests but the difference between Iran and us is that we are not in the same position as they were.
The 'civil unrest' in terms of voting shows not that people generally think the elite are as bad as say the Iranian government of that time but our elite just don't listen properly. They haven't managed to brainwash enough people yet.
For what it’s worth, I have no firm idea whether the UK will be financially and economically better or worse off post-Brexit. Nobody does. Nobody knows whether the UK would be better off if we Remained. I take the view that, despite all its control and centralisation (or more probably because of it), the EU has not exactly engendered massive growth and prosperity across the bloc. So with that in mind I believe that in the long term we’ll probably be far better off.
However, that does not bother me too much either way. The majority of people that I know who voted to Leave were concerned, as I am, with sovereignty. They were fed up with unelected foreigners telling them what they could and couldn’t do. That loss of sovereignty stems from the Maastricht Treaty (hence the point at which my decision was made). It’s quite simple: if you’re happy to be governed by an unelected commission comprising principally of foreigners over whom you have no control then the EU is the place for you. If you value he right to determine who governs you then you must support Brexit. Unlike the economy and citizenship this is not a particularly arguable point. Nothing much else matters to me because for all the threats and scaremongering everything else will come out in the wash. But if we continue to allow the powers of our Parliament to be drained away to Brussels it does not matter what you want because you won’t get it unless 27 other disparate nations agree. and incredible as it might seem, our needs and theirs do not necessarily match.
However, that does not bother me too much either way. The majority of people that I know who voted to Leave were concerned, as I am, with sovereignty. They were fed up with unelected foreigners telling them what they could and couldn’t do. That loss of sovereignty stems from the Maastricht Treaty (hence the point at which my decision was made). It’s quite simple: if you’re happy to be governed by an unelected commission comprising principally of foreigners over whom you have no control then the EU is the place for you. If you value he right to determine who governs you then you must support Brexit. Unlike the economy and citizenship this is not a particularly arguable point. Nothing much else matters to me because for all the threats and scaremongering everything else will come out in the wash. But if we continue to allow the powers of our Parliament to be drained away to Brussels it does not matter what you want because you won’t get it unless 27 other disparate nations agree. and incredible as it might seem, our needs and theirs do not necessarily match.
I suppose it depends on what you expected. I expected the pound to dip a bit and then nothing much until we leave, or at least until we know what leaving means to businesses who trade with EU countries.
With regard to 'spoiler leaver action', I am not too sure what that phrase means, but if it means that the so-called hard Brexit is going to be harder to deliver then I agree. I was quite surprised that the country didn't give Theresa May a mandate to go ahead with hard Brexit, but that is democracy and we have to accept it.
With regard to 'spoiler leaver action', I am not too sure what that phrase means, but if it means that the so-called hard Brexit is going to be harder to deliver then I agree. I was quite surprised that the country didn't give Theresa May a mandate to go ahead with hard Brexit, but that is democracy and we have to accept it.
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