ChatterBank12 mins ago
Delaying Tactics From Uk Gov Re Britext
69 Answers
Yes I know there is a new government,(mostly anti to opting out) it has been a month since the vote,and we get nothing positive happening just reasons for why not,in the news every article about Europe which we are being drip fed making a lot of the people who signed to opt out are wavering,I think we should make the UK GOV aware that if something positive is not happening we will become the joke of europe (like the boy crying wolf)
What do you think we should do to make sure that the government keeps in mind that the majority of the uk voted to opt out,we have a primeminster we didnt vote in.
crystal girl
What do you think we should do to make sure that the government keeps in mind that the majority of the uk voted to opt out,we have a primeminster we didnt vote in.
crystal girl
Answers
I'm unsure how long to wait is unacceptable
09:24 Sat 23rd Jul 2016
I don’t want to get too bogged down in this because I promised myself I wouldn’t. However, a few points need emphasising:
“How does the fact that almost 50% of our exports and only 10% of our imports mean they need us more than we need them?”
I don't know where you get your figures from, Zacs, but the bottom line is that the rest of the EU runs a trade surplus with the UK of something of the order of £80bn a year. The first quarter of this year saw a surplus of £23bn:
https:/
Four weeks is not long enough to devise a strategy for withdrawal, especially as some of that time was taken up forming a new government of ministers. (This was sparked by Mr Cameron chucking his toys from his pram, despite assuring the electorate that he would lead the country to implement whatever they decided).
However, there is too much emphasis on the need – almost at all costs it seems to some – to retain access to the “single market”. Far more countries trade with that market from without the EU than do so from within it. They do so perfectly well and some of the EU’s largest trading partners have no trade agreement with the EU. (Many have tried, but thanks to the inertia of the EU institutions and their need to satisfy 28 very different countries, most have almost given up trying).These countries trade perfectly well with the EU without the need to contribute to its budget or to accept free movement of people. There is absolutely no reason why the UK cannot do the same.
“With sovereignty of one's own nation, with global trade,…”
“We had all that”
No we did not. Among (many) other things: we cannot negotiate trade agreements with countries outside the EU on our own terms; EU law trumps UK law (with the final arbiter being the European Court of Justice); we cannot decide who does or did not settle here; we have no control over around £10bn of taxpayers’ money.
Finally, zacs, as an arch Brexiter, I’d be ever so grateful if you could explain which of my opinions is “half ahr5ed”
“How does the fact that almost 50% of our exports and only 10% of our imports mean they need us more than we need them?”
I don't know where you get your figures from, Zacs, but the bottom line is that the rest of the EU runs a trade surplus with the UK of something of the order of £80bn a year. The first quarter of this year saw a surplus of £23bn:
https:/
Four weeks is not long enough to devise a strategy for withdrawal, especially as some of that time was taken up forming a new government of ministers. (This was sparked by Mr Cameron chucking his toys from his pram, despite assuring the electorate that he would lead the country to implement whatever they decided).
However, there is too much emphasis on the need – almost at all costs it seems to some – to retain access to the “single market”. Far more countries trade with that market from without the EU than do so from within it. They do so perfectly well and some of the EU’s largest trading partners have no trade agreement with the EU. (Many have tried, but thanks to the inertia of the EU institutions and their need to satisfy 28 very different countries, most have almost given up trying).These countries trade perfectly well with the EU without the need to contribute to its budget or to accept free movement of people. There is absolutely no reason why the UK cannot do the same.
“With sovereignty of one's own nation, with global trade,…”
“We had all that”
No we did not. Among (many) other things: we cannot negotiate trade agreements with countries outside the EU on our own terms; EU law trumps UK law (with the final arbiter being the European Court of Justice); we cannot decide who does or did not settle here; we have no control over around £10bn of taxpayers’ money.
Finally, zacs, as an arch Brexiter, I’d be ever so grateful if you could explain which of my opinions is “half ahr5ed”
@danny
some of us have been saying the same for ages and ages...we dont need them , they need us and desperately, as was evidenced by their change/softening in rhetoric in the days before the brexit vote...all of a sudden it went from threats and scaremongering to telling us "how much" they wanted us...a lot of us knew exactly how much and why !
right now apart from anything else they need our money and as much of it as they can get, Italy isnt far off Greece, they are in freefall and they need us to bail them out...
I hope the whole empire comes crashing down and the likes of adolf murkel, junckers, schulz et al get what they deserve for their lies and deceit.
some of us have been saying the same for ages and ages...we dont need them , they need us and desperately, as was evidenced by their change/softening in rhetoric in the days before the brexit vote...all of a sudden it went from threats and scaremongering to telling us "how much" they wanted us...a lot of us knew exactly how much and why !
right now apart from anything else they need our money and as much of it as they can get, Italy isnt far off Greece, they are in freefall and they need us to bail them out...
I hope the whole empire comes crashing down and the likes of adolf murkel, junckers, schulz et al get what they deserve for their lies and deceit.
NJ, I got my info from the FT. Good enough?
http://
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No, not really good enough, Zacs. I suppose you mean this paragraph:
“…while the EU buys half the UK’s exports, Britain buys a little over 10 per cent of exports from the rest of the EU.”
Which does not account for value. Ten percent of their exports exceed the value of 50% of our exports by £80bn a year. So ask yourself, what would they rather lose? But it makes no odds because neither party will lose anything – certainly not as a result of Brexit.
“…while the EU buys half the UK’s exports, Britain buys a little over 10 per cent of exports from the rest of the EU.”
Which does not account for value. Ten percent of their exports exceed the value of 50% of our exports by £80bn a year. So ask yourself, what would they rather lose? But it makes no odds because neither party will lose anything – certainly not as a result of Brexit.
NJ "Which does not account for value. Ten percent of their exports exceed the value of 50% of our exports by £80bn a year. So ask yourself, what would they rather lose?"
While both statistics are true (approximately), surely there is also the matter of relative damage? If we lost ~50% of our exports that would be a huge hit. If the EU lost 10% of its exports that may be a larger hit in absolute terms, but they still have the remaining 90% (or a couple of trillion euros' worth) to fall back on, and won't therefore be broken financially, or even close to it.
The EU 27 is a larger combined economy than everywhere but the US (and possibly also China, depending on the precise measure used). It can cope without us. And anyway we'd kind of want it to, no? It's too late for the debate to influence the result, of course, but still, this insistence that the UK (1/6th the size of the EU) is in a stronger position than the EU is bizarre.
While both statistics are true (approximately), surely there is also the matter of relative damage? If we lost ~50% of our exports that would be a huge hit. If the EU lost 10% of its exports that may be a larger hit in absolute terms, but they still have the remaining 90% (or a couple of trillion euros' worth) to fall back on, and won't therefore be broken financially, or even close to it.
The EU 27 is a larger combined economy than everywhere but the US (and possibly also China, depending on the precise measure used). It can cope without us. And anyway we'd kind of want it to, no? It's too late for the debate to influence the result, of course, but still, this insistence that the UK (1/6th the size of the EU) is in a stronger position than the EU is bizarre.
Tora:
'Total trade exports for May 2016 were £23.4 billion. This was a decrease of £1.1 billion (4.3 per cent) compared with last month and a decrease of £2.3 billion (9.1 per cent) compared with May 2015.
Total trade imports for May 2016 were £36.1 billion. This was a decrease of £4.5 billion (11.1 per cent) compared with last month and an increase of £3.3 billion (10.2 per cent) compared with May 2015.'
https:/
10 times? I think your calculator needs new batteries.
'Total trade exports for May 2016 were £23.4 billion. This was a decrease of £1.1 billion (4.3 per cent) compared with last month and a decrease of £2.3 billion (9.1 per cent) compared with May 2015.
Total trade imports for May 2016 were £36.1 billion. This was a decrease of £4.5 billion (11.1 per cent) compared with last month and an increase of £3.3 billion (10.2 per cent) compared with May 2015.'
https:/
10 times? I think your calculator needs new batteries.
Apologies, that was TOTAL imports and exports. The EU figures are:
EU Exports for May 2016 were £11.4 billion. This was a decrease of £0.5 billion (4.3 per cent) compared with last month. This has remained unchanged compared with May 2015.
EU Imports for May 2016 were £18.6 billion. This was a decrease of £0.5 billion (2.4 per cent) compared with last month, and a rise of £1.2 billion (6.8 per cent) compared with May 2015.
EU Exports for May 2016 were £11.4 billion. This was a decrease of £0.5 billion (4.3 per cent) compared with last month. This has remained unchanged compared with May 2015.
EU Imports for May 2016 were £18.6 billion. This was a decrease of £0.5 billion (2.4 per cent) compared with last month, and a rise of £1.2 billion (6.8 per cent) compared with May 2015.
So in May the EU had a trade surplus of £7.2bn with the UK – not unadjacent to the £80bn per year I first mentioned.
"If we lost ~50% of our exports..."
Why should that happen, Jim? These exports do not depend on our EU membership. It's certainly true that the EU can cope without us. It's also true that we can cope without the EU. But neither is necessary or remotely likely. People seem to forget that trade takes place perfectly well throughout the rest of the world without the need for freedom of movement, without the need for huge contributions to a central budget (and the concomitant redistribution of wealth) and without the need for trading nations to succumb to foreign law making on matters totally unrelated to trade. Nowhere else outside the EU would such conditions be even considered let alone countenanced. Yet all the nations outside the EU trade without these conditions. Perhaps somebody could explain to me why the UK will decline into rubble if it is only able to trade as other normal nations (who seem to do perfectly well) do with the EU.
As I said earlier, most trading nations throughout the world trade perfectly well with the EU without being part of it. There is no reason whatsoever why the UK cannot do likewise and at the same time free itself from the ridiculous ideology that pervades every level of the EU machine. It is fanciful to suggest that when we leave the EU trade will cease or sharply decline. Businesses do not depend on governments to do trade and they certainly do not depend on a supranational organisation that stifles individual nations’ ability to negotiate terms which best suit it.
Now I really must stop getting sucked into these debates :-)
"If we lost ~50% of our exports..."
Why should that happen, Jim? These exports do not depend on our EU membership. It's certainly true that the EU can cope without us. It's also true that we can cope without the EU. But neither is necessary or remotely likely. People seem to forget that trade takes place perfectly well throughout the rest of the world without the need for freedom of movement, without the need for huge contributions to a central budget (and the concomitant redistribution of wealth) and without the need for trading nations to succumb to foreign law making on matters totally unrelated to trade. Nowhere else outside the EU would such conditions be even considered let alone countenanced. Yet all the nations outside the EU trade without these conditions. Perhaps somebody could explain to me why the UK will decline into rubble if it is only able to trade as other normal nations (who seem to do perfectly well) do with the EU.
As I said earlier, most trading nations throughout the world trade perfectly well with the EU without being part of it. There is no reason whatsoever why the UK cannot do likewise and at the same time free itself from the ridiculous ideology that pervades every level of the EU machine. It is fanciful to suggest that when we leave the EU trade will cease or sharply decline. Businesses do not depend on governments to do trade and they certainly do not depend on a supranational organisation that stifles individual nations’ ability to negotiate terms which best suit it.
Now I really must stop getting sucked into these debates :-)
Hi
There is something happening in France and has been for years,in a previous life I was a chartered Accountant and primarily dealt with incomplete records,which consisted mainly small and medium companies a lot of them were hauliers,France will not allow drivers to stay with their lorries,this has now become quite serious as the lorries are left unattended stowaways get in,the sleeping compartment is behind the drivers seat and he would hear if anything happened,also companies get fined.Surely if France let the drivers be with their lorries it would stop stowaways etc and maybe stop the horrendous traffic jams this weekend,I think people should use common sense.Thank you for all your amazing answers,but we cannot be complacent and must see that the situation in Europe is a powder keg and people general just let things happen and suddenly wake up to find ourselves in a real mess we have run this island of ours for many hundred of years and have kept france and germany at bay.crystal girl
There is something happening in France and has been for years,in a previous life I was a chartered Accountant and primarily dealt with incomplete records,which consisted mainly small and medium companies a lot of them were hauliers,France will not allow drivers to stay with their lorries,this has now become quite serious as the lorries are left unattended stowaways get in,the sleeping compartment is behind the drivers seat and he would hear if anything happened,also companies get fined.Surely if France let the drivers be with their lorries it would stop stowaways etc and maybe stop the horrendous traffic jams this weekend,I think people should use common sense.Thank you for all your amazing answers,but we cannot be complacent and must see that the situation in Europe is a powder keg and people general just let things happen and suddenly wake up to find ourselves in a real mess we have run this island of ours for many hundred of years and have kept france and germany at bay.crystal girl
Hi I didnt mean the french drivers, I meant the british who want to remain with their trucks but the french for what ever reason wont allow them,most drivers find sleeping in their trucks the best option,because they then have to find lodgings and something to eat if they can't stay with their trucks
crystal girl
crystal girl
>Even if we are not part of the EU trade agreement the German automobile industry is not going to stop trading with us as most of their exports are to the UK.
Maybe danny, maybe not.They may have to do whatever the EU say on this, although of course Germany plays a big role in the EU. No-one knows- bot sides are in denial . Hopefully we'll find a way through
Maybe danny, maybe not.They may have to do whatever the EU say on this, although of course Germany plays a big role in the EU. No-one knows- bot sides are in denial . Hopefully we'll find a way through
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