I'd just like to apologise to everyone for my offensive behaviour last night.
As many of you know I'm an alcoholic and on Monday I had my first drink for six years whilst on my lunch break. I regret that I have not been able to stop drinking since, and have subsequently been suspended from work for inappropriate behaviour. This has somewhat darkened my predicament.
Well, last night I just couldn't resist winding everyone up by playing the stereotypical fundamentalist which in the cold light of day I realise was very wrong and quite inexcusably immature of me. I especially apologise to wizard and ghetto poet for any hurt I may have caused to their feelings around this sensitive subject.
Anyway, I'm going out on "the lash" today with an old buddy and am planning to try and get back on the wagon this Sunday. I may as well try to swallow some of the iniquity whilst I bathe in it!!
Oh yes, and I really do have two little boys living next door to me, but they call me "Uncle Mani" and I recently furnished them with Newcastle United football shirts with their names on the back.
Once again my apologies.
Mani Hussain Fri 23/05/08 14:25
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personally if I were an alcoholic I would avoid pubs like the plage. It would be like a junkie going to work in a chemist or a glue sniffer in B & Q.
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What sort of company do you work for anyway? Having meetings in pubs- do they still think it's the 80's?
They are behaving irresponsibly in my opinion - what about their duty of care to their employees?
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Mani
Whilst I wouldn’t agree with Wizard that it takes a man (sic) to apologize, it certainly does involve self awareness and courage
If you have managed the alcohol problem for 6 years you clearly have excellent self control and a desire to lead a productive life. However your slip up has cost you dearly and you need to stop the decline now before your life spirals ever downward. You know alcohol has never solved a problem, just temporarily dulled the edges for a while. At work they are not stupid, they must have spotted you got drunk and very nasty? If you don’t explain your problem they will think not only is he a drunk but a self deceiver as well. If you don’t tell them what are they supposed to think about the behavior that you exhibited that was unacceptable in the work place. They will worry it could come back at anytime and you are not fit to be at work, at least an acknowledged alcohol problem is something that can be managed and dealt with. My own view is you would probably in your own right benefit with some alcohol/substance misuse counseling and it may do a lot to reassure work you are not off your head and this sort of behavior won’t occur again.
You don’t have to stop drinking, you can go ahead and slowly kill yourself, kidding yourself you like the effect of booze, (which bits, the drunken diatribes?), or you can pick yourself back up and carry on with abstinence again – you have managed it before however you did, so it follows you can do it again
Good luck with the abstinence, I personally enjoy life far more now I don’t have the problem of alcohol
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What excuse for not stopping will you use tomorrow, Mani?
You know that's an alcoholic's logic, not real world logic. If you're serious, today is the day you need to stop. Contact the AA in your area and get support, but stop kidding yourself that you'll do it 'tomorrow'.
You won't because alcoholics never do.
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Sorry for the hi jack of post but
Hi WaldoMcFroog - just want to say hello and (always an and or a but) point out that the term alcoholic is just one of the explanations for why people drink alcohol to excess, it is not a universal truth and some social scientists do not consider that this 'illness metaphor' is helpful and constructive.
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Mani's the one who is blaming his drinking on being an alcoholic, not me, and I don't think I've actually said anything about it being an illness.
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if its not an illness then what is it?
Some people have a strong propensity to drink like some fat people have a propensity to overeat...its an illness. Nothing to do with morals or will power.
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i dont consider myself an alcoholic, but the idea of going to a pub and not drinking.... well i just dont see the point, so i understand you on that point. BUT if you stayed on the wagon for 6 years and the only reason you had a drink is cos of the ingrained culture of drinking where you work.... this is a very dated attitude in a workplace and you should try getting a new job in a situation that removes the trigger situations.... switch jobs, and good luck.
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WaldoMcFroog, I am properly rebuked! Yes you were only using the description Mani used. Its just the term alcoholic is often used as if it were some kind of truth, which I find particularly unhelpful and anything I feel strongly about tends to result in me wittering on at any given opportunity.
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I dare say that Mani is half cut by this time of night, but Mani, how long have you been in your present employment? If you have been in it for some time how did you manage b4 you relapse?
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Wizard. The term alcoholic is a term a description that some people consider explains why some people misuse alcohol. The term usually comes with a belief that it is something inherent within the person, a condition/ilness that needs constant monitoring and control. Others consider that this explanation like being possessed by demons is outdated and unhelpful. Rather that abuse of alcohol is a learnt behaviour, the reasons why some people go on to behave in such self destructive ways are varied often very powerful, but it is a behaviour which is primarily about choices, especially once the short term physical addiction is overcome.
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ruby, thanks for your reply. I'm no expert on these matters (except for consumming too much alcohol myself) but I do believe...as some scientists do...that there is an alcoholic gene, for some people giving up alcohol is a batte, for 'normal' people, going without a drink isnt a problem.
Ive lost 3 friends through alcohol and for them alcohol wasnt so much about choices as an overpowering desire to drink, despite their efforts to stay sober.
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ruby27, you portray yourself to be knowledgeable in alcoholism. were you an alcoholic or are you an alcoholic councillor or a shrink? also, you seem to be very sure of yourself and know about alcoholics behaviours and patterns. no disrespect meant, just an honest observation.
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With regards to the gene involved, I think it's called FAT. As far as I understand it if you have this gene it'll make you more likely to be prone to addictioins, not that you'll definitely have one. I guess that's where the nurture argument comes in and the situations you find yourself in as you grow up.
As far as choice goes.... There is no choice and it is an illness. Look at some of the alcoholics on the street, do you think they chose that?! Get real.
It's a mental health illness. The reasons that people drink heavily are usually based on a much deeper rooted problem and the drinking is a sympton of this. There are some people who will say what about the ones now who binge drink etc... but if you can't put the bottle down or know your limits I gurantee it's not just because the drink has that much hold on you. Scratch the surface and you will find that there is more to the behaviour than meets the eye.
The only learned part of being an alcoholic is that you may be imitating a pattern in your family history without realising it. But as I already said, there will be a root cause. Always is.
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bag.lady, love your name by the way
I certainly wouldn't claim to be an expert although I do have some expertise, my father died as a direct result of alcohol abuse and I no longer drink because my choices had resulted in some irreparable damage to my health and life also, some damage that to a degree may repair over time.
I am certainly not suggesting as China Doll seems to infer, that people choose to have alcohol problems, but for complex reasons some people choose to drink to excess even when they know this will cause certain death. The discourse that they have no control is very powerful and fosters in them (and myself) a belief that there is no control, that it is inevitable. There is control, its just abstinence I believe is a lot easier. I could drink moderately but the effort and self control is too great, it would be all to easy to lapse back into drunkenness.
Also my work results in me working closely with addiction services, many of the people I work with have drug/alcohol problems and are in treatment through medication and counselling. Not surprisingly I have taken an interest in the theoretical models that inform the thinking and treatment.
Social sciences especially social psychology is my area of professional interest.
My tendency to sound opinionated is that I do feel strongly and passionately about many subjects and in this reality, pixels it may come across if what I type is sacred truth, rather than all that we have to say about human endeavour is partial persepctives, an opinion, a view a current theory.
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I think we're talking at crossed purposes a little here Ruby as the result of a misunderstanding on my part. (Also a problem with pixel debates!)
I absolutely agree that the drinking to excess is something that can be controlled and that in extreme cases absinence is the only way it can be dealt with. The reason I think it's an illness is because as you say, the complexities behind it that are usually the root cause and they are mental health issues in my experience, usually depression, over what is as varied as anything else in this life and entirely subjective.
I think what I was trying to say in a rather haphazard way is that you can't choose not to be an alcoholic, if you are then my thinking is you're one for life, (hence abstinence). You absolutely are and you use drinking as a crutch for something else, drinking ha to someone with an alcohol problem s nothing to do with any social pleasures or blowing off steam or whatever other reasons people come up with, (funny how I just like the taste is so rarely used eh? But I digress) so the only way to control it is the choice not to drink.
Sadly for some, they hit rock bottom and don't come back up. All that's left for them is the bottle or to face what put them there and for some, that choice is too hard and they give their lives to the bottle.
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Well I'm just worrying about Mani now. Has anyone heard from him? x
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So predictable.
There is ALWAYS a root cause and alcoholics will find any reason or excuse to justify/substantiate their continual abuse of alcohol and themselves, family, friends and the people around them.
When they sober up and realise that they have been nasty to the people around them, they blame the drink, when people challenge them over it, they turn back to the drink.
Its a continual cycle that I have very little sympathy for, especially when people use it to excuse their nasty, viscious and vindictive behaviour. Its quite pathetic really.
And before anyone decides to lambast me over my opinions, I have had plenty of experience of dealing with alcoholics. They are very selfish and self-centred, maybe they can't help, it but they certainly don't help themselves.
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Hi Mani - I'm a recovering alcoholic too. I hope you've stopped drinking again now and are continuing your normal life. A slip isn't the end of the world. Pick yourself up and get on with your day.
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