Body & Soul3 mins ago
Are the World’s Religions Near Their End?
62 Answers
I would prefer it if the atheistic group on here did not answer this question. Because I know what they think. I want to see what religionists think.
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Il_billym, you asked me a question, which I answered, but I got no response, so I don't know if you saw it.
http://www.theanswerb...uestion1073771-1.html
http://www.theanswerb...uestion1073771-1.html
Truthabounds - “Think you misunderstood Goodlife’s comment. I read it and he doesn’t say these people are atheists. People are responsible for the conditions we see around us today, “especially” those who have ” little or no regard for the creator and his laws”. No doubt some of these people do believe in God but that does not mean they put him first place in their lives. The first goal in to make money otherwise they would not be in the positions they are.”
So what you're saying is that people who claim to be (for example) Christian may not be Christian in the truest sense of the word?
Well, where does that leave us or Goodlife’s argument? When a person claims to have 'faith' then we must take him at his word, no? As we have no other way of determining the amount of 'faith' a person has, all we can do is accept what they tell us. So if the CEO tells us he is a card-carrying, God fearing Christian, we must accept what he says is true.
Maybe we could attempt to judge his 'faith' by his actions? The difficulty in that is multitudinous. A Prime Minister, President, CEO, etc. may on occasion do many honourable deeds and look like the epitome of righteousness. The next day, they may make a decision that kills many people to achieve a political goal or puts many people out of work to achieve a financial goal that achieves a greater good for the majority.
The simple fact is that the every world leader and the vast majority of the heads of banks/industry claim to have religious belief. Since there is no way to quantify the amount of 'faith' that these people have, it's fair to say that my original post remains accurate.
As an aside, if we're going to judge people on their actions rather than what they say, the Old Testament story of Abraham and his ultimately abortive attempt to murder his own son, shows that a person can carry out the most horrific deeds and still be held up as a paragon of piousness and virtue. Such is the twisted logic that pervades religious belief.
So what you're saying is that people who claim to be (for example) Christian may not be Christian in the truest sense of the word?
Well, where does that leave us or Goodlife’s argument? When a person claims to have 'faith' then we must take him at his word, no? As we have no other way of determining the amount of 'faith' a person has, all we can do is accept what they tell us. So if the CEO tells us he is a card-carrying, God fearing Christian, we must accept what he says is true.
Maybe we could attempt to judge his 'faith' by his actions? The difficulty in that is multitudinous. A Prime Minister, President, CEO, etc. may on occasion do many honourable deeds and look like the epitome of righteousness. The next day, they may make a decision that kills many people to achieve a political goal or puts many people out of work to achieve a financial goal that achieves a greater good for the majority.
The simple fact is that the every world leader and the vast majority of the heads of banks/industry claim to have religious belief. Since there is no way to quantify the amount of 'faith' that these people have, it's fair to say that my original post remains accurate.
As an aside, if we're going to judge people on their actions rather than what they say, the Old Testament story of Abraham and his ultimately abortive attempt to murder his own son, shows that a person can carry out the most horrific deeds and still be held up as a paragon of piousness and virtue. Such is the twisted logic that pervades religious belief.
Birdie:
This is where understanding and discernment come into play.
True, we cannot say how much faith a person has. True many people say they are Christian but sometimes that is just a title. Their actions belie their words. Take for example the Mafia. They call themselves Catholics - appear to be benevolent and yet behind the scenes they can be positively wicked. Even Jesus said about the religious leaders of his day, "Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform. (Matt. 23 v 1 - 3)
So how do we, the man in the street, know just how much faith these people have in God if we cannot even trust the religious leaders?
With regard to Abraham. God had no intention of letting Abraham sacrifice Isaac. He had already promised Abraham that it was through this son that the nations would bless themselves. If Isaac was killed that would not happen. Again discernment takes its place here. This was a prophetic picture of God offering up Christ as a sacrifice for the sinful human race.
Bible reading and Bible understanding are two different things.
This is where understanding and discernment come into play.
True, we cannot say how much faith a person has. True many people say they are Christian but sometimes that is just a title. Their actions belie their words. Take for example the Mafia. They call themselves Catholics - appear to be benevolent and yet behind the scenes they can be positively wicked. Even Jesus said about the religious leaders of his day, "Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore all the things they tell YOU, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but do not perform. (Matt. 23 v 1 - 3)
So how do we, the man in the street, know just how much faith these people have in God if we cannot even trust the religious leaders?
With regard to Abraham. God had no intention of letting Abraham sacrifice Isaac. He had already promised Abraham that it was through this son that the nations would bless themselves. If Isaac was killed that would not happen. Again discernment takes its place here. This was a prophetic picture of God offering up Christ as a sacrifice for the sinful human race.
Bible reading and Bible understanding are two different things.
//Bible reading and Bible understanding are two different things.//
Bible reading and making it up as you go along are also two different things. I've rarely read such claptrap!
//God had no intention of letting Abraham sacrifice Isaac.//
So why tell him to do it? It's a twisted, malicious, mind that torments people. That is one sick God you have there.
Bible reading and making it up as you go along are also two different things. I've rarely read such claptrap!
//God had no intention of letting Abraham sacrifice Isaac.//
So why tell him to do it? It's a twisted, malicious, mind that torments people. That is one sick God you have there.
Naomi: As I said Reading and Understanding are two different things. Not making it up - If you know your Bible as you say you do, you will know full well that Abraham was being put to the test. He proved his faith in God knowing that even if Isaac did die he would be resurrected - otherwise how could God's promise at Genesis 22 v 18 be fulfilled?
It is not a load of claptrap. It is you not having understanding.
It is not a load of claptrap. It is you not having understanding.
Truthabounds, So it's my lack of understanding? Well, if that's the case, I can only say I'm delighted that I don't possess your understanding. A God who deliberately puts a human being to an unnecessary and maliciously cruel test when he knows the outcome before the test begins is nothing less than a twisted, evil, psychopathic, monster. You pride yourself on your understanding of this creature, but frankly, anyone who can find the slightest justification in such an act - and deem this appalling God worthy of adoration - should, in my opinion, seriously examine his own mental stability. If you people are the good guys, as you claim to be, then Zeus help us all!! A mindset such as yours would scare the 'hell' out of me!
If God is as evil and as maliciously cruel as you make out, we would not be here today, he could easily have got rid of all those who prefer not to know him but he chooses to allow all to live to give them the chance of coming to really know him, and not the evil malicious and cruel god that is ruling this world at this time. Jesus Christ sacrificed his life so that people like you and me could have the opportunity of living in a world without evil. But it appears that is the life you want anyway.
As much as you hate my quoting from the Bible - it tells us that the "god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers that the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through" in that same letter to the Corinthians Paul wrote "and no wonder for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light."
Only if you accept that there is a god. Only if you accept that the bible has meanings above basic morality tales and xenophobia and fear to keep the followers in line.
Those who believe in god twist everything. Were the bible true, the evidence is that god is a sociopath - A sociopath moreover that chooses not to eliminate those who disbelieve, but who is sufficiently twisted that they would like us all to experience the joy of the "stockholm syndrome".
Those who believe in god twist everything. Were the bible true, the evidence is that god is a sociopath - A sociopath moreover that chooses not to eliminate those who disbelieve, but who is sufficiently twisted that they would like us all to experience the joy of the "stockholm syndrome".
Truthabounds, //If God is as evil and as maliciously cruel as you make out,//
I'm not 'making out' - that account - and more - is there in black and white!
//Jesus Christ sacrificed his life so that people like you and me could have the opportunity of living in a world without evil..//
I doubt that very much, because again, there is no reason for a supposedly omnipotent God to condemn a man to such a cruel and unnecessary death. None whatsoever! Your God can do anything he wants, can't he? But no, he doesn't do it with love and compassion - he does it with blood, brutality and threats - and that is his history! How any caring human being can admire that is completely beyond me.
//But it appears that is the life you want anyway//
It does? Tell my why I'm evil.
I'm not 'making out' - that account - and more - is there in black and white!
//Jesus Christ sacrificed his life so that people like you and me could have the opportunity of living in a world without evil..//
I doubt that very much, because again, there is no reason for a supposedly omnipotent God to condemn a man to such a cruel and unnecessary death. None whatsoever! Your God can do anything he wants, can't he? But no, he doesn't do it with love and compassion - he does it with blood, brutality and threats - and that is his history! How any caring human being can admire that is completely beyond me.
//But it appears that is the life you want anyway//
It does? Tell my why I'm evil.
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Truthabouds -
I don't find it surprising that you fail to see the evil in the story of Abraham. It takes a truly warped mentality to see the good in the story of a man who is ordered to murder his own child by god and then at the very last second, instructed not to do so by that very same god. Have you ever read that story and thought about the psychological effects on Isaac? Does it not strike you as particularly cruel to have Isaac carry the wood upon which he would be murdered whilst asking his father, Abraham, which animal they would be killing that day?
It is a truly abhorrent tale of thwarted infanticide which if carried out today would see Abraham locked up for a very long time indeed and young Isaac being taken into care. In short, it is evil. It is evil because it taught Abraham nothing, undoubtedly inflicted serious psychological damage upon Isaac and was ultimately pointless from an experimental perspective as god would have already foreseen the outcome.
The only conclusion that one can draw from this story if one is being objective and honest is that god was being unnecessarily evil for his own amusement.
For a lighter look at this rather unpleasant story watch this....
I don't find it surprising that you fail to see the evil in the story of Abraham. It takes a truly warped mentality to see the good in the story of a man who is ordered to murder his own child by god and then at the very last second, instructed not to do so by that very same god. Have you ever read that story and thought about the psychological effects on Isaac? Does it not strike you as particularly cruel to have Isaac carry the wood upon which he would be murdered whilst asking his father, Abraham, which animal they would be killing that day?
It is a truly abhorrent tale of thwarted infanticide which if carried out today would see Abraham locked up for a very long time indeed and young Isaac being taken into care. In short, it is evil. It is evil because it taught Abraham nothing, undoubtedly inflicted serious psychological damage upon Isaac and was ultimately pointless from an experimental perspective as god would have already foreseen the outcome.
The only conclusion that one can draw from this story if one is being objective and honest is that god was being unnecessarily evil for his own amusement.
For a lighter look at this rather unpleasant story watch this....
-- answer removed --
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