How would you test whether prayer works?

[chakka35]

In a thread below Truthabounds claimed, on very flimsy grounds, that prayer works.. So how would one set up a rigorous double-blind test for the efficacy of prayer? My claim is that the problems are insuperable. Consider:

Assuming that you convene Group A who are going to be prayed for and Group B who are not...what would the prayer concern?

Would you give them all a lottery ticket for the following Saturday and pray for A to win and not pray for B – or pray for B to lose? No, no, some would say, that’s too frivolous, thus breaking the first rule of double-blind testing: that the testers must not decide in advance what will affect the results.

OK, so you pray for some ill people to recover and some not. Is that ethical? How do you ensure that they are all at the same stage of similar illnesses and how long do you allow for natural healing to take place?

How do you ensure that those not prayed for are truly not prayed for? Do you go to the families and friends of Group B and tell them not to pray for their loved ones? And do you issue an edict to all clergy not to have their general prayer for the sick to be issued until further notice?

Look, I’ve just scratched the surface of the problem. Somebody else talk for a minute..

[LoftyLottie]

I seem to remember that I was taught that God listens to all our prayers, but he only does what he thinks is best for us. If that is the case what is the use of praying. He does what he wants anyway.

[mickrog]

im reformed.....i prayed friday saying ....please god dont let me win the Euro lottery......and guess what....incredibly i didnt.....so im now a believer.

[Elderman]

Prayer is not the only thing there is to the worship of God. People spend countless hours praying for God to give them things and to take them to heaven, but they may never put their lives in order. These people must learn that how we live is as important as the repeating of daily prayers. One decent act of justice toward one’s brother is worth more than a thousand prayers hailing God as the Source of justice. If we would pray right we must also live right.

[RATTER15]

Elderman, you really are taken in by all this nonsense, try a walk in the real world, no one needs God to lead a perfectly decent and normal life, it is just the gullible and weak that need this God to lean on.

I would be totally ashamed to be the follower of such an evil, vindictive murdering God!!!

[rowanwitch]

You don't need the guidance of religion to do that

How much more good could you have done in the real world instead of spending time posting ....

[LazyGun]

@Elderman - If you want to be seen as a force for good in the world, get up off your knees, stop praying to an invisible, non existent supernatural mythic being, stop listening to those voices in your head, and go out and do some good - preferably without the sanctimonious asides and platitudes.

Go and help people because they are people who need help, not because you want to impress your God. Spending some time reading some basic science primers would not be wasted time either, in your case.

[naomi24]

Elderman, why do you feel the need to deceive by hiding under two different names? 'Goodlife' has just logged on too. Funny that.

[mickrog]

praying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuEAGUHjsAU&feature=related

[Elderman]

Yes,what changes in half a century! The young generation may think conditions have always been as they are today, a world without faith in God, but senior citizens know better. Older members of society are well aware of the stupendous changes that have occurred in their lifetimes; and, whether their children’s children believe them or not, the historical facts prove that conditions have progressively gone from bad to worse. Turn the pages of history back half a century, if you will, and compare world conditions then with current times, and you will see why so many persons today have little or no faith in God or his Word the Bible.

And yet the Bible said “Faith is not a possession of all people.”—2 Thess. 3:2.

[RATTER15]

Elderman, you talk absolute nonsense. Do you realise that you are turning people against this God of yours by spouting this nonsense all the time, you really are no more than an irritating fool that has learned nothing about the real world!!

[Elderman]

It take real faith for a Christian to endure suffering, to be abused and tormented and made a public show because of what he believes and preaches concerning God’s kingdom. It takes real fortitude for other Christians to stand loyally by and watch the treatment that faithful men who love God receive because of their not breaking integrity. Jesus Christ, their Exemplar, endured to the death. He said: “He that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.” (Matt. 24:13) Jesus knew of men who displayed such magnificent faith before he himself became a man to save the world by a ransom. The record of their faith stands as a testimony to this day in the book of Hebrews, chapter eleven. Faith is not just a thing of the past that prechristian people showed, but something that Christians must display now. In the face of all the modern ideas, scientific knowledge and theories taught today, how strong is your faith in Jehovah God, in his Son Christ Jesus and in the written Word of God, the Holy Bible?

[jackthehat]

Non-existent........like your deity.

Will you be belting-up any time soon?

[beso]

Yes Elderman, real changes, changes for the better.

Homosexual people are no longer considered abominations, childen of those who are not married are no longer called by a derogatory term, women and children are no longer considered chattels of a man.

Well at least in secular societies. These things and worse (such as women being stoned to death for being raped) still go on in primitive theocratic socities.

We the secular people of the world are working toward the demise of religious power. We also thank you for your contribution in this effort by clearly demonstrating the way of the religious zealot is not something an intelligent thinking person would wish to persue.