Is it correct to refer to the Jews as a 'race'?

[birdie1971]

It is a question that has intrigued me for a while since the phrase 'Jewish race' (and its variants) crop up regularly in the media.

Should it be rightly referred to as a 'race' or is it simply a religious belief? Is it both?

[237SJ]

I don`t know but a Jewish pal said to me "Judaism is a religion, not a race". That was good enought for me.

[shooty]

race
2    /reɪs/ Show Spelled[reys] Show IPA
noun
1.
a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

Jewish, Catholic, Hindu, etc could all be 'Races' surely ?

[starone]

So what would you call them then?

[pastafreak]

Maybe ethnicity is a better word-but then Jews are also related I suppose to other middle eastern groups.

[NOX]

My wife is Jewish and considers herself to be part of a 'race' of Jews- nto to say that's the right answer as there is huge contention on the subject since Jews can be African, European etc etc etc so clearly lines blur as to what 'race' actually means since it's a purely constructed social context.

[shooty]

'common descent' would denote the faith that you are born into.

[237SJ]

A friend of mine has a hugely controversial view. He thinks that Jews and Arabs are the same race. Much as that idea seems controversial, I can (kind of) see his point. Jews and Arabs come from the same part of the world and if you look at the people in that part of the world, they look the same. They have the same facial features/hair etc. The only thing that differenciates them is their religion.

[237SJ]

*differentiates*

[birdie1971]

The word 'race' seems to be such a malleable term that it can pretty much mean whatever the person using it wants it to mean.

I would argue that it is impossible to change your 'race'. However, it is possible to change your religion so I suggest that Jewish people are a religious community rather than a race (as are Hindus, Muslims, Christians, etc.).

[shooty]

I agree, but the dictionary states otherwise.
Chinese and Indians are Asian, but have different faiths (north and south asia) Geordies and Cockney's are north and south English with many variants of culture between them.

[birdie1971]

237SJ - “...A friend of mine has a hugely controversial view. He thinks that Jews and Arabs are the same race...”

I don't think that's too controversial. According to anthropologists, there are only four uniquely identifiable 'races' – Caucasian, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Australoid.

[237SJ]

I agree birdie but I thought there was a 5th one. I don`t know what it is though. I can`t remember.

[birdie1971]

Shooty - “... Chinese and Indians are Asian, but have different faiths (north and south asia) Geordies and Cockney's are north and south English with many variants of culture between them...”

The Chinese are Mongoloid and the the Indians are Caucasian. Surely 'race' is not about faith and traditions? Shouldn't it be the physiological characteristics that define a 'race'?

[birdie1971]

237SJ - “... but I thought there was a 5th one. I don’t know what it is though. I can't remember...”

Is it Chavoid? I see lots of them where I live.

;-)

[shooty]

If you wish to re-write the dictionary, maybe. But i can only quote what i am told or by what i read.

'a group of persons related by common descent or heredity. '

The book clearly states this. Man can question what he likes, but our education stems from what we read. When we question what we read, like the youth of today seem to do. Den i wil torque lik dis n get away wiv it cus bucks dont meen nowt.
I'm not trying to be funny, but we can only abide by the gramma that is written and documented.

[237SJ]

Yes, we have Chavoid around here.
You`re right about the Indians being caucasian. I have had discussions with my Indian colleages about the fact that we are, basically, the same. Indian people have the same facial features as us and it`s the facial features that define us (not our colour). A thing that I find fascinating is that the native Indians in North and South America are basically Chinese (Mongoloid) You can see it in their features as well.

[birdie1971]

Shooty - “... I'm not trying to be funny, but we can only abide by the gramma that is written and documented...”

Please don't think I'm having a go at you about this – I'm not. I agree that the dictionary definition is as you say it is. To illustrate my earlier point about the word 'race' being highly malleable, I've found this on-line definition, “...a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics...”...
http://www.merriam-we...r.com/dictionary/race

By this definition, train spotters could be described as a 'race'!


My original question could be re-rendered as, “Should the word 'race' be such a loosely defined concept?”

[birdie1971]

237SJ - “... it’s the facial features that define us (not our colour)...”

I agree. I find it surprising how many people consider an individual's skin colour to be the defining factor in determining a person's race.

[shooty]

There was no malice in your words. I truely think you have great grounds for what you are saying, but i shall live by the book. (i suppose that makes me a sheep rather than a leader). Without being rude, it is time for my bed. I will subscribe to this thread as i think you have hit upon an interesting debate and i would like to see others opinions. Goodnight all, sleep well. : )

[birdie1971]

↑ Thank you. The same to you too.